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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #221 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:14 am 
Gosei
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Amigo wrote:
I have never seen such a short game!

how do you like this game? :)
https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=271711#p271711

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #222 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:08 am 
Dies in gote

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at first glance it seems impossible! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #223 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:11 pm 
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Keep in mind that these matches were run with only 10 playouts. This is not enough for complex fighting. No matter how strong a network is, there will be reading errors in such a fight when limited to 10 playouts. Therefore such a fight (as the flying knife joseki here) may decide the game very quickly ...

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #224 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:11 am 
Gosei
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akigo wrote:
Keep in mind that these matches were run with only 10 playouts. This is not enough for complex fighting. No matter how strong a network is, there will be reading errors in such a fight when limited to 10 playouts. Therefore such a fight (as the flying knife joseki here) may decide the game very quickly ...

please write in more detail what are these "reading errors"

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #225 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:15 am 
Gosei
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11 and 12 game BadukAI - Sabaki 0:2 (4:8)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #226 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:35 am 
Gosei
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20 games KataGo (40b s1110 maxPlayouts 10, numSearchThreads 1, japanese) - gtp4zen (--jpn_rules -t4 -r10 -s6000 -n3 -o1.0 -p0.75). 18:2
zen settings correspond to 9d




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #227 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:27 pm 
Lives with ko

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And wrote:
please write in more detail what are these "reading errors"


In a complex fight there may be a variation that "looks good" for black after 10 moves, but inevitably leads to black's whole group being captured after 20 moves. If KataGo is limited to 10 playouts, it can't see that bad outcome, therefore it might erroneously choose that variation as black, thereby commiting a big blunder.

If a human did this, we would say: "He/she didn't read deeply enough" or "He/she commited a reading error". That's why I used this term.

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #228 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:31 am 
Gosei
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it doesn't depend on the opponent, i.e. 10 playouts in any case can lead to reading errors, or only against a strong opponent?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #229 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:36 am 
Gosei
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13 and 14 game BadukAI - Sabaki 1:1 (5:9)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #230 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:49 pm 
Lives with ko

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And wrote:
it doesn't depend on the opponent, i.e. 10 playouts in any case can lead to reading errors, or only against a strong opponent?


The reading errors may occur against any opponent, but against weak opponents they will often not matter, as they happen only in complex fighting situations. And in such situations a weak opponent will often not be able to find the move that punishes the error.

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #231 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:17 am 
Gosei
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it means that a person still has a chance to defeat KataGo! :) and what value of playouts will probably be sufficient? and it depends on the network size (10...60 blocks)?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #232 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:28 am 
Gosei
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15 and 16 game BadukAI - Sabaki 0:2 (5:11)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #233 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:43 pm 
Lives with ko

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And wrote:
and what value of playouts will probably be sufficient? and it depends on the network size (10...60 blocks)?


I can't judge that. But I can report that they use 500 playouts on katagotraining.org for their rating games.

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #234 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:37 am 
Gosei
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@akigo

thanks a lot!

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #235 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:40 am 
Gosei
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17 and 18 game BadukAI - Sabaki 0:2 (5:13)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #236 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:49 am 
Gosei
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19 and 20 game BadukAI - Sabaki 0:2 (5:15)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #237 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:29 pm 
Gosei
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21 and 22 game BadukAI - Sabaki 1:1 (6:16)




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #238 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:39 am 
Gosei
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23 and 24 game BadukAI - Sabaki 2:0
after 24 games BadukAI (40b optimized version 1.13.2, maxPlayouts 10, numSearchThreads 1) - Sabaki (40b s1110 maxPlayouts 10, numSearchThreads 1) 8:16




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #239 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:55 pm 
Gosei
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BadukAI 1.14 (40b optimized version 1.13.2, maxPlayouts 20, numSearchThreads 1) - Sabaki (40b s1110 maxPlayouts 10, numSearchThreads 1, GraphSearch)
1 and 2 game 2:0




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 Post subject: Re: KataGo Distributed Training and new networks
Post #240 Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:44 pm 
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3 and 4 game BadukAI - Sabaki 2:0 (4:0)




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