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Who do you think will win?
Tromp 3-0 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
Tromp 3-1 15%  15%  [ 6 ]
Tromp 3-2 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Zen 3-0 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Zen 3-1 33%  33%  [ 13 ]
Zen 3-2 15%  15%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 39
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 Post subject: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:05 am 
Tengen

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http://www.computer-go.info/h-c/index.html. This is the first I heard of it, while assembling links to share on the XKCD forums (re: http://xkcd.com/1002/).

The engine used will be Zen, and it will be played over KGS, but it looks like things are otherwise pretty similar. Edit: I see there is an announcement http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2012-January/004527.html

Anyone know anything? Predictions?

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Last edited by hyperpape on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:59 am 
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Can you add a poll? Or is it too late after the thread is made?

See info on the original bet that was played a little over a year ago: http://dcook.org/gobet. John beat ManyFaces 4-0. Zen is stronger than ManyFaces, has had an extra year of development, and (I assume) will use better hardware than ManyFaces used.

I think it will be a close match this time, I'll be disappointed if Zen doesn't win at least 1 game. But it's really hard to predict since the thousands of games the Zen plays on KGS are mostly blitz, and many of it's human opponents are not playing with full concentration. Especially the long time controls give a huge advantage to the human compared to playing 9x:15s byoyomis than Zen19D uses. Zen19S, the version that plays with big hardware on slower time controls (20+5x:30), hasn't played since September. It was a strong 4d then.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:33 am 
Tengen

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yoyoma wrote:
Can you add a poll? Or is it too late after the thread is made?
Done. But now I need to decide how to vote...

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #4 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:57 am 
Gosei
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Tromp 3-Zen 1 is my vote (first to vote :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:04 am 
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Aw, it's less interesting when there's no money on the line...

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:56 am 
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XD I can offer a teaching game, but I can't teach that many people :D

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:10 pm 
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How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

If it is running on a droid, I'll bet on Trump; if on a double Cray, I'll bet on Zen.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

If it is running on a droid, I'll bet on Trump; if on a double Cray, I'll bet on Zen.


I would assume (rightly or wrongly) for the sake of the bet that it will run on the hardware that has gotten Zen to 4-5d on KGS.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Aw, it's less interesting when there's no money on the line...

Right. But didn't it say 'Bigger and Better Than Ever' ??!

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:04 pm 
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I hope it gets some actual publicity this time, the event sucked a little from that perspective last time around.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Javaness2 wrote:
I hope it gets some actual publicity this time, the event sucked a little from that perspective last time around.

I've contacted them about an interview and if they agree I'll put a paid press release out using some of the money raised by our Go shop (to make sure it actually gets into the media). If anyone has any contacts in the media or would like to help in other ways, please send me a message. It doesn't sound like we have much time...

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:17 pm 
Oza
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Now, there are the Tromp-Taylor rules, but wasn't the bet between Cook and Tromp?

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

If it is running on a droid, I'll bet on Trump; if on a double Cray, I'll bet on Zen.


"any hardware that can be brought to the playing site"

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #14 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:04 am 
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OK, here are the details: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showd ... d-game-go/

It turns out the games start on January 13, 8pm US Eastern Time, so there wasn't any time for an interview. I put together this article to publicize the event and will still do a media release as well.

As Javaness said, this event is a great opportunity to introduce Go to more people. I don't usually ask this here, but if you want to help to promote Go, please share this article with more people.

Anyone who wants to republish this or use it as the basis for an article in another language is welcome to do so as well. A link would be appreciated if you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #15 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:13 am 
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Just heard about this and excited to see what happens this time! Zen is pretty darn strong. Javaness, maybe you could pull some adminy strings and get it in the KGS MOTD?

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #16 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:07 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

gogameguru wrote:
...which says
Quote:
...Zen19 is sporting a dual 6-core Xeon X5680 (overclocked to 4.2Ghz)...


Ok, it is just a hopped up dual core PC. I'm betting on Tromp 3-0.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #17 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:16 am 
Tengen

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Zen's normal hardware: http://computer-go.org/pipermail/comput ... 04390.html

Zen's creator apparently thinks that this version will be half a stone to one stone weaker than the version playing on KGS. If that's the case, then the big issues will be how it performs at longer time limits, whether it's actually earned its KGS rank, and whether Tromp knows of weaknesses to exploit.

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #18 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:16 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

gogameguru wrote:
...which says
Quote:
...Zen19 is sporting a dual 6-core Xeon X5680 (overclocked to 4.2Ghz)...


Ok, it is just a hopped up dual core PC. I'm betting on Tromp 3-0.


Nope. It's a dual-processor PC, with 6 cores each. That totals 12 cores :P


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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #19 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:46 am 
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I made a reddit post, Redditors please go upvote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comm ... eiqibaduk/

shortened link:
http://bit.ly/xokGWK

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 Post subject: Re: Rerun of the Tromp-Taylor bet
Post #20 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am 
Judan

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Does anyone have a good idea of how strong Tromp is? Iirc when he made the bet he was 1d, but is stronger now. He has only played 1 tournament in the EGD in the last decade as a decent 2d (2231) and that was in 2005. If that's an accurate representation of his current strength I think I'd have to bet on Zen now.

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