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Drago 4.21 available
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6019		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Gilles [ Sat May 19, 2012 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Drago 4.21 available
I am very glad to inform you that the 4.21 release of Drago is available at http://www.godrago.net .

This version fixes a problem with warning message boxes and adds 3 features requested here or at SL:

    full screen mode
    timing only for game engines
    possibility to insert a node with no move in the game tree

Feedback welcome!
Author:  mw42 [ Sun May 20, 2012 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Gilles wrote:
    possibility to insert a node with no move in the game tree


Amazing. I was just wishing yesterday that I could do this in Drago. :shock:
Author:  skan [ Sun May 20, 2012 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Nice.
Thank you

It would be nice if you also add the option to play one engine vs another engine, passing parameters to each one.
Author:  kivi [ Mon May 21, 2012 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Is there a way to define how big the player pictures will be on the screen? I noticed one can add pictures to the players folder, so I added a few that are good enough resolution to be displayed slightly bigger.
Author:  Gilles [ Tue May 22, 2012 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
@mw42: good timing!

@skan: yes, it is in the list. Not sure how this could be useful, but would be nice.

@kivi: this makes sense. Added to the list.
Author:  skan [ Fri May 25, 2012 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Hello Gilles.

It's useful for people that likes to compare engines, though I know that the important thing is the game against humans and not against other machines.


I can't get Drago working with the Pachi engine. But that engine works properly with Gogui.


regards
Author:  Mike Novack [ Fri May 25, 2012 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
There are uses for engine vs engine:

1) Calibration: There might be a great deal of experience for various levels of engine 1 playing against humans but little experience for engine 2. In which case engine vs engine can be used to calibrate engine 2 (report on how its levels relate to levels of engine 1 and how those relate to playing against humans of known rank).

2) Determining where engines are on the strength/crunch curve: The performance of some engines might still be increasing by a reasonable amount when given more computing power while another might already be at the point of diminishing returns. If you have determiend that level x of engine 1 equals level y of engine 2 you can see if this relationship remains unchanged as crunch power is increased or decreased.

3) Testing changes: I don't mean at the developer level although developers probably do use engine vs engine for various purposes (but capable of rolling their own engine vs engine shell). I mean user options, answering questions like "does adding more space help and how much" or "how much does ponder help", etc.

Perhaps only of use to those of us who want to review engines?
Author:  skan [ Fri May 25, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Mike Novack,
I'm not a developer of engines, that's why I didn't thought of that but it's very interesting.
I agree, it could be used to test, train and develop new engines.
We could get a monster like WOPR in WarGames :)

My intentions were just to benchmark them and watch the patterns they use.
Author:  Gilles [ Fri May 25, 2012 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Mike Novack wrote:
There are uses for engine vs engine

To get result statistics without too much user intervention, a program would have to implement a tournament mode enabling to:

    play games with various engines
    play games with various settings
    repeat games with same settings and engines
    gather and format statistics

This is far more that I would implement in Drago and would be better handled with a standalone program. For instance, one of the twogtp programs could be used and extended.

Now, adding an option to select a game engine in place of the user could be implemented in Drago but not as useful as a tournament mode.
Author:  Gilles [ Fri May 25, 2012 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
skan wrote:
I can't get Drago working with the Pachi engine.

This has been tested on xp and w7. I would be interested in if you could get more information by looking at the gtp window and comparing with what happends on the command line.
Author:  skan [ Sat May 26, 2012 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Gilles wrote:
skan wrote:
I can't get Drago working with the Pachi engine.

This has been tested on xp and w7. I would be interested in if you could get more information by looking at the gtp window and comparing with what happends on the command line.


Could you tell me what test to do or how the get logs, please?
Author:  blade90 [ Sat May 26, 2012 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
pachi works with Drago if you use the parameter:
Code:
-d 0

Without the parameter pachi doesn't make a move (or very slowly).

Edit: Thanks for the update! Drago is a great program and I use it to play against engines.
Author:  skan [ Sat May 26, 2012 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
blade90 wrote:
pachi works with Drago if you use the parameter:
Code:
-d 0

Without the parameter pachi doesn't make a move (or very slowly).

Edit: Thanks for the update! Drago is a great program and I use it to play against engines.


OK, Thanks
Author:  Gilles [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
blade90 wrote:
Drago is a great program

So good to read :bow: Thanks!

Drago comes with the "-d 0" setting for pachi. However, pachi seems to require a lot of memory. For instance, I have to close my browser to make it work on my netbook with 1GB RAM.

For the same reason, pachi pattern files should be used only if a lot of memory is available.
Author:  skan [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Gilles wrote:
blade90 wrote:
Drago is a great program

So good to read :bow: Thanks!

Drago comes with the "-d 0" setting for pachi. However, pachi seems to require a lot of memory. For instance, I have to close my browser to make it work on my netbook with 1GB RAM.

For the same reason, pachi pattern files should be used only if a lot of memory is available.


Hi

Though this might not be the proper thread to comment this I'll say I've been testing different engines...
My PC has enough memory to play with Pachi and the extra patterns or any engine I've tried.
The problem is that all of them (in windows) have been compiled with a 32 bit compiler and they crash if you configure them to use more RAM.

Pachi takes a long time to start because it needs all the memory from the beginning.
I've found a program called 4gb_patch that allows you to use a little more memory.
Anyway I've found Fuego more stable and I think they are very similar in strength.
I think Pachi is better in the ranking because they use a computer with a lot of processors.

regards
Author:  Sneegurd [ Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drago 4.21 available
Go software and GTP are still in a very early stage, if you compare with chess...
I found out, engines often do not respect timing or need special commands. E.g., Gnugo does not respect time settings. It's answer time only depends on the level.

But Fuego 1.1 does, so I always play against it.

Drago, great program.
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