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Suggestion for Android developers
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6596		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  daal [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Suggestion for Android developers
The most difficult problem with android go apps seems to be the problem of magnifying the board and placing the stones. Android has an imminently intuitive way of magnification - the two finger spread - yet none of the go programs I know of make use of it. My suggestion: to make a move one must first spread, then place a stone. If this could be implemented well, it might make playing on a phone a good deal more attractive. You heard it here first.
Author:  phrax [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
Some already have this functionality, although the mechanism is slightly different. anDGS (for DragonGo) and Panda-Tetsuki (for IGS) auto-zoom when you tap in an area. It isn't the pinch dynamic for zooming in/out, but I've found the tapping-prior-to-playing method works really well.
Author:  mdobbins [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
phrax wrote:
Some already have this functionality, although the mechanism is slightly different. anDGS (for DragonGo) and Panda-Tetsuki (for IGS) auto-zoom when you tap in an area. It isn't the pinch dynamic for zooming in/out, but I've found the tapping-prior-to-playing method works really well.


Thanks, phrax, for the mention.

That was the prime reason I wrote anDGS. For a while I was playing on DGS with a browser using the two finger zoom in/out, but even though it was intuitive, I found it extremely awkward, frustrating, and error prone. The default tap-tap-tap to zoom, make and submit a move is, for me, so much easier and accurate as well as not frustrating. It is an easy test, use the web interface for a game on a small screen then use the app. I think you will prove it to yourself.
Author:  Dalmas [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
I found several problems with this gesture :

- The device must support multitouch.
- Although intuitive, it quickly becomes annoying to do this gesture every time you want to play a move.
- It's hard to zoom at the right place, unless you have a very large screen.
- You may inadvertently play a move while trying to zoom. Remember the times when the gesture didn't work on your browser and you clicked a link instead. It's not really important on a browser where 95% of the screen isn't clickable (images, links, ...) but on a Go board, it's the opposite.
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
Dalmas wrote:
I found several problems with this gesture :

- The device must support multitouch.
:shock: Is this really a common deficiency?
Author:  Dalmas [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
No of course, but some Android 2.x devices don't support it.

And if an app (like anDGS) also supports Android 1.x, then it's complicated because there are no functions to handle multitouch on these versions. It will just crash unless the developer takes time to handle two different zoom mechanisms depending on the Android version. But I don't think it's worth the time.
Author:  lobotommy [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
Solution used in Panda Tetsuki looks like best option - simple, quick and with nice visual aspect. Will work regardless you have multitouch or not.
Author:  daal [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
phrax wrote:
Some already have this functionality, although the mechanism is slightly different. anDGS (for DragonGo) and Panda-Tetsuki (for IGS) auto-zoom when you tap in an area. It isn't the pinch dynamic for zooming in/out, but I've found the tapping-prior-to-playing method works really well.
These are indeed already the two apps that I am familiar with (don't have kgs) where stone placement works best. I can't help wondering though, if the relatively standard two finger zoom wouldn't be better.

mdobbins wrote:
It is an easy test, use the web interface for a game on a small screen then use the app. I think you will prove it to yourself.
I did try it, and I find the ability to control the zoom allows me to better maintain my focus on the position, and I also prefer being able to see just the amount of the board that I deem best. I think the deficit you perceive may be because a web page typically looks and feels a bit more sloppy than an app because there is more than just the board. I'm not convinced that a well designed app such as yours wouldn't be a better experience.

Dalmas wrote:
I found several problems with this gesture :

- The device must support multitouch.
Most do, but I agree that it would be a hassle to make different versions for different android systems. Nonetheless, many developers also make an ithingy version.
Quote:
- Although intuitive, it quickly becomes annoying to do this gesture every time you want to play a move.
It's a two step process, just like on andgs or tetsuki.
Quote:
- It's hard to zoom at the right place, unless you have a very large screen.
I found when trying out Michael's suggestion, the opposite to be true. I could see exactly the part of the board I wanted to, and could better fit it to my little screen.
Quote:
- You may inadvertently play a move while trying to zoom. Remember the times when the gesture didn't work on your browser and you clicked a link instead. It's not really important on a browser where 95% of the screen isn't clickable (images, links, ...) but on a Go board, it's the opposite.
This seems to be the most valid objection - but it's also the one that I would expect clever developers to outsmart. :)
Author:  phrax [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
I have the KGS app, and there isn't a zoom that I know of. It has a 'confirm' button that is used to submit the move. That protects against fat-fingering a move.

To each his own, but feel like tap+play is less physical effort than pinch-zoom (seriously, how lazy am I?). The sacrifice is some zoom control, but I typically decide my move, then zoom to play. Sometimes it would be nice to control zoom level, but I don't find it burdensome. I'd rather be able to hit the point I want every time.
Author:  xed_over [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
yeah, but I think I share daal's frustration with the tap to zoom -- I frequently get disoriented with the zoom and then have to spend more time trying to reorient myself, or zooming back out and in again to reorient myself.

whereas with the pinch to zoom, there's a finer control which is not so disorienting (depending on the app and implementation, of course)

a different zoom option has nothing to do with dealing with misclicks, and confirming moves. That functionality can remain the same. As to whether or not the pinch to zoom would result in more or less misclicks is yet to be seen.
Author:  badukJr [ Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion for Android developers
I usually play with the same hand that is holding the phone, so two finger zoom would be horrible.

My suggestion is tracing a loop with a finger and it zooms to contain the loop.
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