Life In 19x19
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engine for beginners?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7604		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cherryhill [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  engine for beginners?
are there any engines good for beginners? i have tried GnuGo at level 1 (which is the most beginner level, i think?) and it kills me. i have played igowin a bunch and can get to like 8 kyu on it but its a 9x9 board and i'd like more practice on a 19x19 board
Author:  emeraldemon [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
The KGS computer go room usually has several bots of varying strengths, from completely random moves up to 3d+ . That said, I recommend playing against humans :)
Author:  msgreg [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
Very good question! You might consider one of the easy bots on goKGS.com. They range in strength at least down to 29/30kyu.

Igowin Pro on an iPhone/iPad I believe will play 19x19 games as low as 19kyu strength.
And Many Faces of Go will play down to 18kyu strength.
(I mention those because they are both related to igowin that you mentioned).

One of the reasons you might be getting killed is the difference in whole board strategy that is necessary when you go from 9x9 to 19x19. One of the VERY USEFUL books I read to get a feel for whole board strategy is Opening Theory Made Easy (Sensei's).

I played for several months on 9x9 and 13x13. Don't get discouraged!
Author:  cherryhill [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
thanks. are there any free go engines that can play down to the same level as the Many Faces engine?

i actually have opening theory made easy but found it really difficult but i have heard many great things about it for beginners. i'm currently working my way through learn to play go vols 2-5 at the end of which hopefully i'll be ready to tackle opening theory made easy
Author:  msgreg [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
Try Opening Made Easy again after Learn to Play Go volume 2: The way of the moving horse. That's exactly when I read it. Or whenever you are ready to tackle 19x19. Playing will help solidify your reading.

Do you have a specific reason for "an engine"? If not, you really could just log on to KGS and play a bot or other humans. It's free! I was kind of scared to play humans until I could reliably beat igowin 9x9 with 2 stones given to me (as far as the free igowin tutor goes on the iPhone). I think this is equivalent to 25k or so.

I'm not sure what strength controls are on GnuGo, but it is a free engine you can download. http://www.gnu.org/software/gnugo/

Or you can log on to KGS and play GnuGo of different strengths, or several other bots. Right now in the KGS Computer Room, there is:
BeginerBot [25k]
IdiotBot [30k]
GnuGoBot39 [-] (no estimated rank)
HelloBot13 13x13 round 29k
HelloBot9 9x9 round 29k
mfgoXXkyuY, (the many faces of go at 9, 12, and 15 kyu)
RandomBot 13x13 (plays random moves)
WeakBot 9x9, 20kyu

Also,

LibertyBot
WeakBot
AyaBotX

As one of my favorite Pro Teachers (Guo Juan) says "Jump In!!" (though she says it in reference to invasion during the mid-opening phase of the game)
Author:  karaklis [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
When I was in the DDK ranges I liked to play with Aya. That's an excellent engine for beginners. You can set the handicap stones to get an even game, but it would be better to take less or give more handi stones than in an even game. When you are able to beat that program, you are ready for GnuGo.
Author:  Inkwolf [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
Try this site, set to the fastest level:
http://www.peepo.com/

It shows green areas where your stones have influence, and it also suggests possible moves for you, some of which are good and some of which are seriously awful. Good or bad, it makes you think about places to put your stones that you might not have thought about otherwise.

Click on the 19 for the full-sized board, click on the lightning bolt for faster, click on the clock for slower.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
cherryhill wrote:
thanks. are there any free go engines that can play down to the same level as the Many Faces engine?


Remember, for beginners Many Faces may effectively be free. You wouldn't need to pay for a Many Faces registration until you had become strong enough to beat MFOG at its weakest level (18 kyu) or need problems stronger than the elementary set. Those things are supposed to be available with the "free trial" version.
Author:  zslane [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
msgreg wrote:
Do you have a specific reason for "an engine"?

One reason to play engines (or bots) is that games need not be played in real time. I can play a few moves, then go do something else, and come back to the game at my leisure. Most human opponents would never put up with that. :)
Author:  oren [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
zslane wrote:
Most human opponents would never put up with that. :)


Unless you're on OGS or DGS where it's expected. :)
Author:  zslane [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: engine for beginners?
oren wrote:
zslane wrote:
Most human opponents would never put up with that. :)


Unless you're on OGS or DGS where it's expected. :)

The flip side is that I have to wait for my human opponent to get around to making his next move, whereas an engine will play immediately after I make a move. While the benefits of playing humans can't be overstated, the convenience of engines and bots should be rather obvious as well.
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