Life In 19x19 :: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Android

As a perhaps silly experiment, I took a picture of a goban in SmartGo. It did pretty well, as you'd expect, but it had the peculiar side effect of placing lots of white stones on the edge. Not sure why, as the on-screen board has the brown area extending well beyond the grid lines.

quantumf wrote:

Please send the pic.

Rémi

Rémi wrote:

quantumf wrote:

Please send the pic.

Rémi

How? I can find the share button, which attaches the pic to an email. But I don't know what your email address? Is there a one touch way to share it directly with you?

Just a quick thumbs up for this software. I tried it in a bar and the recognition rate was amazingly good, bravo! I had originally thought to write exactly similar application but seems I don't need to anymore. Just don't make it much over 2 € when it's finished!

A couple of improvement ideas:

* Some way to fine-tune grid corners (zoom in functionality, if it exists, alternate idea is a user manual

* Editing recognized board should maybe happen zoomed in with an overlay of image and smaller black/white circles in middle of the stones, it seems to work visually quite well

I would mostly be using the software to kibitz about club games, it's easier to silently show interesting variation or tesuji from phone without disturbing players. So a possible additional feature would be to recognize a part of the board, and let the user tap additional stones of alternating color in there, with automatic capture. (UI-wise you could maybe have buttons to restart from "official" board with black/white stone, and possibly simple variation controls (although back button would probably suffice).

Regarding price, my idea is to make it free with an annoying 15s delay before showing the score, and you'll be able to remove the delay with an in-app purchase.

Rémi wrote:

Regarding price, my idea is to make it free with an annoying 15s delay before showing the score, and you'll be able to remove the delay with an in-app purchase.

The "freemium" scheme seems pretty reasonable, but if you could go with a separate "unlock key" on the Play store (rather than strictly in-app purchase) I would greatly appreciate it.

(I am always wary of in-app purchases.)

Do you expect to release another beta any time soon - I have an android using friend interested in trying your app!

'Kifu Snap' enables you to score and analyze positions of a Go board simply by taking a photo with your device.

--Free trial period (10 days)--
We have provided a free trial period of 10days. Why don't you try it and test the unique features of the app!

This app enables you to store the data of a Go board just by taking a photo with your device.
You can save it in SGF files and send it to your other PCs etc. via email.
Also there are more unique features since we have integrated the thinking engine 'Crazy Stone into this app.

'Crazy Stone' can judge life and death of the stones at the end of the game, and calculate the score.
And more, 'Crazy Stone' will analyze the situation of a game you want, shows you the 'winrate' for both players
of the situation and the hint of your next move.

This app will help your Go games in every way, useful for not only beginners but also for advanced players !

--Features--
*Saves the Go board situation in SGF files
*Send SGF files via email
*Score calculation
*Analysis of the situation by Crazy Stone
*Hint of your next move
*Japanese/Chinese rule is selectable
*Board size is selectable

--Details on Subscription--
We have provided a 10 days free trial period.
You will not be charged immediately after you have subscribed.
If you do not cancel the subscription before the end of the 10 days free trial period,
you will be automatically charged the monthly fee ($1.99 per month).

--Notes--
Please confirm that the app works normally on your device during the free trial period.
The Subscription will be renewed automatically unless cancelled more than 24 hours
before the end of its current period.
To turn-off the auto renewal of subscription, please touch the 'Cancel Auto-renewal'
button below and change your Google Play Account settings.
You will not be able to cancel the current subscription during its active period.

While I like that the app is there, that auto-renewal subscription revenue model is kinda shady. :scratch:

What made you go with a subscription model at all?

And why not have people have to choose to renew the subscription instead of being charged automatically?

I am sorry you don't like the subscription system. The subscription is the choice of Unbalance. Maybe they'll change their billing scheme in the future if this one is not successful.

Rémi

Author:	Rémi [ Wed May 29, 2013 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Android
Hi, I have just put this on my web page, if some of you are interested: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/kifu-snap/ Kifu-Snap is an experimental tool to recognize a go board from a picture. On this web page you can download a free demo of the current Android prototype. You might find this prototype useful already, as it should let you score a finished game much faster than manual scoring. Still the recognition rate is far from perfect. The purpose of releasing this prototype is that the app will let you email your board pictures to me if you wish to do so. I need to collect a large database of varied board samples in order to train the machine-learning algorithms of kifu-snap better. So I'd appreciate your help. In exchange for this data, the next version of Kifu-Snap is likely to recognize your board better. Rémi

Author:	quantumf [ Wed May 29, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
For those with android phones:

Author:	jokkebk [ Wed May 29, 2013 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Sounds like an excellent project. I was actually contemplating on writing very similar software, but will likely now just wait and see if this does the job. My idea was simply to have the user specify corners and dimensions for the grid in picture, so the only algorithm would need to do is to recognize whether there's a black/white stone or empty intersection in given point. This would work nice for club game kibitz, so if there's an interesting board situation you wouldn't need to copy or memorize it for playing out a variation. I'll have to try the app out later this week when I have a go board at hand. Good luck in the project!

Author:	quantumf [ Thu May 30, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
As a perhaps silly experiment, I took a picture of a goban in SmartGo. It did pretty well, as you'd expect, but it had the peculiar side effect of placing lots of white stones on the edge. Not sure why, as the on-screen board has the brown area extending well beyond the grid lines.

Author:	Rémi [ Thu May 30, 2013 5:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
quantumf wrote: As a perhaps silly experiment, I took a picture of a goban in SmartGo. It did pretty well, as you'd expect, but it had the peculiar side effect of placing lots of white stones on the edge. Not sure why, as the on-screen board has the brown area extending well beyond the grid lines. Please send the pic. Rémi

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Android http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8453	Page 1 of 2

Author:	quantumf [ Thu May 30, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Rémi wrote: quantumf wrote: As a perhaps silly experiment, I took a picture of a goban in SmartGo. It did pretty well, as you'd expect, but it had the peculiar side effect of placing lots of white stones on the edge. Not sure why, as the on-screen board has the brown area extending well beyond the grid lines. Please send the pic. Rémi How? I can find the share button, which attaches the pic to an email. But I don't know what your email address? Is there a one touch way to share it directly with you? Edit: I see its the "share all" menu item. I tried it with a real board, and it was struggled severely with the board which had both a bright light shining on it (turning a lot of squares white) and a severe shadow (turning all the squares black). You'll see what I mean I'm sure.

Author:	Rémi [ Thu May 30, 2013 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
quantumf wrote: Rémi wrote: quantumf wrote: As a perhaps silly experiment, I took a picture of a goban in SmartGo. It did pretty well, as you'd expect, but it had the peculiar side effect of placing lots of white stones on the edge. Not sure why, as the on-screen board has the brown area extending well beyond the grid lines. Please send the pic. Rémi How? I can find the share button, which attaches the pic to an email. But I don't know what your email address? Is there a one touch way to share it directly with you? Next to "Share" you should find "Send All Files":

Author:	foeZ [ Fri May 31, 2013 2:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
I downloaded it and was quite impressed that it worked so well. Good job!

Author:	Rémi [ Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
http://remi.coulom.free.fr/kifu-snap/ A new version is available now. It supports automatic grid recognition (19x19 only). That was much more complicated to do than what I originally thought. Stone recognition was not improved, it is exactly the same as before. I am sorry I changed the package signature, so you'll have to uninstall the previous version in order to be able to install the new one. This new version will work until October 1st. I am sorry if you were hit by the limit of the previous version. I thought I would release an upgrade earlier. I thank all the users who sent photos. I don't really need more, but feel free to continue sending them to me. Have fun, and please let me know if you have any comment or suggestion. Rémi

Author:	Rémi [ Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
I updated the web site today. A new version with minor fixes (you can actually disable anti-slip) + a new collection of links on the web site.

Author:	jokkebk [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Just a quick thumbs up for this software. I tried it in a bar and the recognition rate was amazingly good, bravo! I had originally thought to write exactly similar application but seems I don't need to anymore. Just don't make it much over 2 € when it's finished! A couple of improvement ideas: * Some way to fine-tune grid corners (zoom in functionality, if it exists, alternate idea is a user manual * Editing recognized board should maybe happen zoomed in with an overlay of image and smaller black/white circles in middle of the stones, it seems to work visually quite well I would mostly be using the software to kibitz about club games, it's easier to silently show interesting variation or tesuji from phone without disturbing players. So a possible additional feature would be to recognize a part of the board, and let the user tap additional stones of alternating color in there, with automatic capture. (UI-wise you could maybe have buttons to restart from "official" board with black/white stone, and possibly simple variation controls (although back button would probably suffice).

Author:	Rémi [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
jokkebk wrote: Just a quick thumbs up for this software. I tried it in a bar and the recognition rate was amazingly good, bravo! I had originally thought to write exactly similar application but seems I don't need to anymore. Just don't make it much over 2 € when it's finished! A couple of improvement ideas: * Some way to fine-tune grid corners (zoom in functionality, if it exists, alternate idea is a user manual * Editing recognized board should maybe happen zoomed in with an overlay of image and smaller black/white circles in middle of the stones, it seems to work visually quite well I would mostly be using the software to kibitz about club games, it's easier to silently show interesting variation or tesuji from phone without disturbing players. So a possible additional feature would be to recognize a part of the board, and let the user tap additional stones of alternating color in there, with automatic capture. (UI-wise you could maybe have buttons to restart from "official" board with black/white stone, and possibly simple variation controls (although back button would probably suffice). Thanks for your nice feedback. Note that you can zoom in/out by double-tapping the picture (double-tap inside a corner circle to zoom into that corner). There is some online help that explains it. A dialog should show up the first time you use the application. You can get this dialog again by choosing "help" in the menu. You can also read some usage help on the kifu-snap web site. Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate the features. Double-tap does not work for editing the board. I know that editing the board is not convenient on small screens. I will improve it. Maybe you did not notice: with a long press, a cross appears. If you wait even longer, half of the cross will lock. That may help a bit, although it is a bit complicated to use. I will find a better way. Also, on some devices, the anti-slip option that you can find in the preferences may help (it will ignore finger movements made right before lifting the finger). Next version will have a significantly better recognition rate, automatic dead-stone detection, and also analysis of unfinished games by Crazy Stone (score histogram + move recommendation). That should make it a good tool for kibitzers. Regarding price, my idea is to make it free with an annoying 15s delay before showing the score, and you'll be able to remove the delay with an in-app purchase. This way users will be able to test all the features before deciding to buy. Thanks again for your feedback. Rémi

Author:	LocoRon [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Rémi wrote: Regarding price, my idea is to make it free with an annoying 15s delay before showing the score, and you'll be able to remove the delay with an in-app purchase. The "freemium" scheme seems pretty reasonable, but if you could go with a separate "unlock key" on the Play store (rather than strictly in-app purchase) I would greatly appreciate it. (I am always wary of in-app purchases.)

Author:	Rémi [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
LocoRon wrote: Rémi wrote: Regarding price, my idea is to make it free with an annoying 15s delay before showing the score, and you'll be able to remove the delay with an in-app purchase. The "freemium" scheme seems pretty reasonable, but if you could go with a separate "unlock key" on the Play store (rather than strictly in-app purchase) I would greatly appreciate it. (I am always wary of in-app purchases.) I don't really understand why it makes a difference. With a so-called "managed" in-app purchase, you'll be able keep the purchase forever and share it with all your devices. So it should be virtually identical to buying a paid app. Maybe the best solution would be to have two apps anyway: one free with an in-app purchase to remove the delay, and one paid (the same price as the in-app purchase) without any delay. Rémi

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Author:	fireproof [ Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Do you expect to release another beta any time soon - I have an android using friend interested in trying your app!

Author:	Rémi [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
fireproof wrote: Do you expect to release another beta any time soon - I have an android using friend interested in trying your app! Thanks for your interest. We are in the final steps of submitting the app to Google Play. The app was improved a lot: Image recognition is more accurate. Crazy Stone is incorporated into the app to determine dead stones and analyze unfinished games (win rate, score histogram, suggested move). Many small features and interface improvements, such as a zoom, and board rotation. I'll send a message here when it is released. Rémi

Author:	Rémi [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
fireproof wrote: Do you expect to release another beta any time soon - I have an android using friend interested in trying your app! It is now on Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... d.kifusnap Google Play wrote: 'Kifu Snap' enables you to score and analyze positions of a Go board simply by taking a photo with your device. --Free trial period (10 days)-- We have provided a free trial period of 10days. Why don't you try it and test the unique features of the app! This app enables you to store the data of a Go board just by taking a photo with your device. You can save it in SGF files and send it to your other PCs etc. via email. Also there are more unique features since we have integrated the thinking engine 'Crazy Stone into this app. 'Crazy Stone' can judge life and death of the stones at the end of the game, and calculate the score. And more, 'Crazy Stone' will analyze the situation of a game you want, shows you the 'winrate' for both players of the situation and the hint of your next move. This app will help your Go games in every way, useful for not only beginners but also for advanced players ! --Features-- Saves the Go board situation in SGF files Send SGF files via email Score calculation Analysis of the situation by Crazy Stone Hint of your next move Japanese/Chinese rule is selectable *Board size is selectable --Details on Subscription-- We have provided a 10 days free trial period. You will not be charged immediately after you have subscribed. If you do not cancel the subscription before the end of the 10 days free trial period, you will be automatically charged the monthly fee ($1.99 per month). --Notes-- Please confirm that the app works normally on your device during the free trial period. The Subscription will be renewed automatically unless cancelled more than 24 hours before the end of its current period. To turn-off the auto renewal of subscription, please touch the 'Cancel Auto-renewal' button below and change your Google Play Account settings. You will not be able to cancel the current subscription during its active period.

Author:	Phelan [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
While I like that the app is there, that auto-renewal subscription revenue model is kinda shady. What made you go with a subscription model at all? And why not have people have to choose to renew the subscription instead of being charged automatically?

Author:	Rémi [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Phelan wrote: While I like that the app is there, that auto-renewal subscription revenue model is kinda shady. What made you go with a subscription model at all? And why not have people have to choose to renew the subscription instead of being charged automatically? I am sorry you don't like the subscription system. The subscription is the choice of Unbalance. Maybe they'll change their billing scheme in the future if this one is not successful. Rémi

Author:	fireproof [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kifu-Snap: automatic go-board image recognition for Andr
Rémi wrote: I am sorry you don't like the subscription system. The subscription is the choice of Unbalance. Maybe they'll change their billing scheme in the future if this one is not successful. Rémi Well, you can pass along this user's disinterest in trying the app with this subscription model in place, particularly the auto-renewal set up.