[solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
<edit> Thanks to Erythen and dfan I now know about the stones, but I’d still be thankful if somebody could translate those Japanese texts for me </edit>
Hey everybody.
Who was it who said “Yield to temptation!”? Mae West?
Anyway, there was an offer for a (I think) shin-kaya table board (~26 mm, four-piece), shell & slate stones (9.2 mm, Kiseido S33Y), and bowls (Keyaki, Kiseido T378), offered as “used once” (which was nine-and-a-half years ago, i.e. in December 2006), and I couldn't resist.
Stones and bowls were originally purchased from Kiseido in Japan, the price of the stones at the time was ¥35.000 (w/o shipping), and that’s about all I know, the original owner couldn't tell me anything about the “grade” of the stones.
So I’d like you to help me identifying, please, and you’d make me happy if you could provide translations for all texts (Pls forgive the bad photo quality, can’t find the camera and had to shoot with olden iPad 2.)
Both boxes from above:
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Stones box, front side:
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Bowls box, front side
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[cont’d in next post, only three attachments allowed]
Author:
Bonobo [ Fri May 20, 2016 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
Taking away the lids … on the left, which says White and which Black?
And, lastly, the shell stones (I’ll scan a few stones tomorrow if it is necessary and helps)
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7 - White Stones.jpg [ 246.36 KiB | Viewed 12079 times ]
In the previous images, the colour of the Keyaki bowls are totally off … here’s a photo I stole from Kiseido which has it quite accurate:
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Keyaki.jpg [ 15.91 KiB | Viewed 12079 times ]
BTW, if the Kiseido order number for the stones was “S33Y” … would it be “Yitsuo”? Nowadays those would have a “J” at the end, but I don’t know how it is pronounced, so perhaps a “Y” would be the same?) wrong, see comments below, thx.
Thanks in advance!
Tom
p.s.: And if any of you ever should come to the Lüneburg Heath in Northern Germany, you’re welcome to visit and play with me If I know long enough in advance I could even put you up for a few days, incl. WiFi You’d not be the first Go visitor.
Author:
Erythen [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
Hello,
The "Y" in 33Y probably stands for "Yuki." Which means snow (grade).
Look for the kanji below to see the grade in Japanese 33Y = Yuki (Snow) 雪 33T = Tsuki (Moon)月 33J = Jitsuyo (Standard/Practical)実 OR 実用
This fits with the description on the box which also says the stones are Snow. At a cursory glance at the stones confirms that, though I'd have to see better pictures to be sure. The stones are definitely Mexican in origin. But Kisedo wouldn't lie about their stones
The bowls are most likely Keyaki. I don't know the Japanese characters for it, but their coloration and grain looks right.
I can't translate everything, maybe someone else with a little more Japanese skill
<gasp> so … these are highest grade stones? (OK, I know that Mexican stones are esteemed less worth than Japanese, but … I actually don't really care, even them being Yuki is, well, nice, but not really important, more that they are simply beautiful. And it’s just nice that now we have another real nice set for our little village Go club <happy>)
Thanks for your replies, Erythen and dfan, muchly appreciated!
Now I need to gain a LOT of playing strength and probably personality to justify playing those stones …
Author:
DrStraw [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
Bonobo wrote:
Now I need to gain a LOT of playing strength and probably personality to justify playing those stones …
Or you could invite some strong players to your house and watch them play.
Author:
Bonobo [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
DrStraw wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
Now I need to gain a LOT of playing strength and probably personality to justify playing those stones …
Or you could invite some strong players to your house and watch them play.
Well, Doctor, you did read that invitation above, no? If you come I promise to find somebody stronger than me for you to play
Author:
DrStraw [ Fri May 20, 2016 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
Bonobo wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
Now I need to gain a LOT of playing strength and probably personality to justify playing those stones …
Or you could invite some strong players to your house and watch them play.
Well, Doctor, you did read that invitation above, no? If you come I promise to find somebody stronger than me for you to play
Well, there are two problems: you have wifi, and I don't travel. But thanks anyway.
Author:
Go_Japan [ Fri May 20, 2016 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: [solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
The first image on the left, says "Clam Go Stones", in Japanese it is "Hamaguri Go Ishi" On the right of the first image, it is hard to read the calligraphy for me on the right side. The signature also on the left bottom is very difficult. I can only read the big text in the center, which says, "Go Bowl" or "go ke" in Japanese.
In the second image, it is basically the same thing that all go stones say when you buy real clam stones. It is like a standard label that they all use. In the blue area it says, "Hyuuga Made Real Clam Go Stones" In the white area, on the left, it says, "Special Clam White Stone" and under, it says, "Real Nachi black stone" Nachi, I am not sure if is the word for slate or the location in Mie prefecture where the slate comes from. On the right, it says "Yuki Grade Size 33"
The third image On the top it says, "wood made Go Bowl" I am not sure what the second character is on the top. On the bottom it says, "Keyaki material" on the left, and on the right it gives the size of the bowl "special big"
In the forth image, the top white box says, "real clam" the bottom says "Real Nachi Black"
Hope that helps. Edit: I fixed some of the Kanji after asking my wife.
Author:
EdLee [ Fri May 20, 2016 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi Tom, Congrats. Is this your first ever slate & shell set ? Is this your first experience with Mr. Kuroki ?
Go_Japan wrote:
On the right of the first image, it is hard to read the calligraphy for me on the right side. The signature also on the left bottom is very difficult. I can only read the big text in the center, which says, "Go Bowl" or "go ke" in Japanese.
Yes, the calligraphy on your Go bowls box is "medium" free style, but it's still non-trivial, even for native Chinese or Japanese to parse. All 3 columns are read top-down. Right-most column:
2nd character: 50% chance 木 (ki; wood), 50% chance 本 (hon; as in honte; Honda; proper/authentic/original ).
6th character: 99% chance 物 (mono; thing -- likely in combination with the 5th character ).
Author:
Go_Japan [ Fri May 20, 2016 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi Tom, Congrats. Is this your first ever slate & shell set ? Is this your first experience with Mr. Kuroki ?
What makes you think it is Kuroki (Actually, it says clearly they were purchased from Kiseido originally)? He doesn't even sell size 33 stones as far as I see on his website. It also seems as though his stones are sold with a wood box, not cardboard. Of course, the bowls could be his, but they are still likely to be made by someone else, so the name and signature should be someone else. Even his expensive bowls are clearly marked, like these: http://shop.kurokigoishi.co.jp/item/771. They are marked with Nishikawa and come with a certificate, where the Kanji are quite clear. I am asking a friend to see if they can read it as well, since this is difficult to read even for Japanese people. Unless you know what it is in advance, calligraphy can be very hard to read.
edit: if you could get a close up of the Red stamp, it might be easier to read than the freehand Kanji.
Author:
EdLee [ Fri May 20, 2016 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote:
What makes you think it is Kuroki (Actually, it says clearly they were purchased from Kiseido originally)?
My tired brain ? I've been shuffling (pebble sized) rocks for about 7 hours. ( Plus working with stone slabs weighing 150~300 lbs (68~136 kg). ) From morn till sunset. This has been brought to you by the letter K.
Author:
tj86430 [ Sat May 21, 2016 12:16 am ]
Post subject:
Re: [solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
With such nice stones you really need to have an equally nice kaya board.
Author:
Go_Japan [ Sat May 21, 2016 12:28 am ]
Post subject:
Re: [solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
tj86430 wrote:
With such nice stones you really need to have an equally nice kaya board.
Indeed. A new set of size 33 yuki stones will be over 55,000 yen these days.
Author:
Nestor [ Sat May 21, 2016 5:33 am ]
Post subject:
Re: [solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
How much was everything? could you post a picture of the board? The stones look wonderful... where do you find this kind of offers?
Author:
Go_Japan [ Sat May 21, 2016 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Re:
EdLee wrote:
Right-most column:
2nd character: 50% chance 木 (ki; wood), 50% chance 本 (hon; as in honte; Honda; proper/authentic/original ).
6th character: 99% chance 物 (mono; thing -- likely in combination with the 5th character ).
I think the first two characters are 銘木, pronounced meiboku. If you do a google search you can see that it is a particularly good type of wood, for example here is an image search.
Author:
Bonobo [ Sat May 21, 2016 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Re:
OK, friendly folks, thanks a LOT for all your help!
I have made an imgur album where I have added the information you have given. (Sadly, the iPad photos are just too bad, except for those with the shell stones. Some 1D10T [and I suspect one certain person ] has misplaced my camera.)
EdLee wrote:
Congrats.
thx It really makes me dizzy to learn how lucky I actually am …
Quote:
Is this your first ever slate & shell set ?
No, a few years ago I did another lucky heist:
Sadly I had to remove the img tags because of the 800 pixels limit … hopefully you have a plugin that shows you the images if you hover over the links … otherwise pls. visit the above-mentioned imgur album. http://i.imgur.com/Upl0Bqg.jpg Front: old bowls (~45–50 yrs) (in reality darker) Back: Keyaki bowls, here the colours are quite correct
http://i.imgur.com/Y8x59Jd.jpg Front: old bowls with size ~30-31 shell & slate stones, ~45–50 years old Back: Keyaki bowls (actually lighter than here)
You already know meanwhile: the original purchase was ~10 yrs ago from Kiseido, and I only recently recently purchased stones, board, and a book as “used” (i.e. used once for re-playing a pro game ten years ago, from somebody who has finally (and sadly) given up playing Go after not playing for this long time. This person actually had played in their company’s Go club for a while but apparently couldn’t stand the pain of everybody being stronger than them (which frustration I can well understand). I guess if I lived AND were closer to that person, I’d then try to convince them to take it up again, just by playing with them.
Quote:
the calligraphy on your Go bowls box is "medium" free style
LOL, prolly like my own handwriting which has degraded even more since I began using computers
Go_Japan wrote:
On the right of the first image, it is hard to read the calligraphy for me on the right side. The signature also on the left bottom is very difficult. I can only read the big text in the center, which says, "Go Bowl" or "go ke" in Japanese.
and
Go_Japan wrote:
[..] I am asking a friend to see if they can read it as well, since this is difficult to read even for Japanese people. Unless you know what it is in advance, calligraphy can be very hard to read.
edit: if you could get a close up of the Red stamp, it might be easier to read than the freehand Kanji.
Will these somewhat modified images help?
tj86430 wrote:
With such nice stones you really need to have an equally nice kaya board.
The (probably) shin-kaya board I have now is the best I’ve ever had
Images again too big, sadly. If you don't use an image viewer plugin pls visit this imgur album
http://i.imgur.com/Pdvf4St.jpg Table board, maybe shin-kaya strongly colour-edited so as to make it “real”—the surface looks quite right here; BUT the edge in front is NOT dirty but just a bad Photoshop mask :v
Go_Japan wrote:
tj86430 wrote:
With such nice stones you really need to have an equally nice kaya board.
Indeed. A new set of size 33 yuki stones will be over 55,000 yen these days.
/me faints. Maybe I should bring bowls and stones to the bank for them to put it into their vault so that I have something for my old days. But kidding aside, I’m almost shocked to read all this … Yuki grade, so-and-so valuable … I almost feel bad about heaping up such values while being such a measly player, and I wonder whether the former owner was aware of all this … and how many much better players, gifted young players, just play with cheap material, and then to think that I could as well have donated the money to some good cause …
I cannot talk about that without being embarrassed for several reasons, and you wouldn’t want to embarrass me, therefore you didn't ask that question, out of courtesy
Quote:
could you post a picture of the board?
pls see above link to the imgur album, but the photos are really bad (like in: VERY bad).
Quote:
The stones look wonderful... where do you find this kind of offers?
Well, somebody advertised the stones, the board, and a few books as a bundle for a friend of theirs, in the German Go forum. (see above for a little more about this.)
Go_Japan wrote:
I think the first two characters are 銘木, pronounced meiboku. If you do a google search you can see that it is a particularly good type of wood, for example here is an image search.
Thank you, “meiboku” is nice to know. I also looked up “Keyaki” on the Wikipedia, and it says it is “Zelkova serrata” (and since it also says that this tree is often grown as Bonsai, I have promptly ordered a few seeds for experimenting )
Author:
Bonobo [ Sat May 21, 2016 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: [solved, thx] Please Help Identifying Stone Quality
And here’s another photo of the shell stones
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White plays second.JPG [ 156.44 KiB | Viewed 11871 times ]
Size 33 (9,2 mm) Yuki (snow) grade shell stones, Keyaki bowl (but colour too dark here, see other pics)
(interesting: I can upload larger images than I can embed with img tags (max. 800 px) … Joaz & Co.: is this intentional?)
<edit>
And BTW, I still want need …
a set of double convex Yunzi stones (I do have a set of ~45-50 yr old single-convex green Jade luster Yunzi stones), and …
a set of ING stones.
It’s all for the local Go club, of course
</edit>
Author:
Go_Japan [ Sat May 21, 2016 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Re:
Bonobo wrote:
With such nice stones you really need to have an equally nice kaya board.
The (probably) shin-kaya board I have now is the best I’ve ever had
Images again too big, sadly. If you don't use an image viewer plugin pls visit this imgur album
http://i.imgur.com/Pdvf4St.jpg Table board, maybe shin-kaya strongly colour-edited so as to make it “real”—the surface looks quite right here; BUT the edge in front is NOT dirty but just a bad Photoshop mask :v
[/quote]
What makes you think it is shin-kaya? Does it have dents in it from playing on the board? I have been looking at a lot of boards to purchase recently and I haven't seen a shin-kaya board made from several pieces. Perhaps I am just looking at the more expensive boards, but shin-kaya I have seen is always just one piece of wood. OTOH, Kaya is often made from several pieces because it is much more expensive. So, I am just wondering, maybe your board is kaya.
Edit: It is hard for me to see in the picture though. Maybe it is one piece board, in which case shin-kaya would be more plausible.
You’d not be the first Go visitor.
(OK, I know that Mexican stones are esteemed less worth than Japanese, but … I actually don't really care, even them being Yuki is, well, nice, but not really important, more that they are simply beautiful. And it’s just nice that now we have another real nice set for our little village Go club <happy>)
[and I suspect one certain person 
] has misplaced my camera.
The (probably) shin-kaya board I have now is the best I’ve ever had
