Hello!
For my more go-adept wife, i'm buying a floor goban for christmas! At the time being the traditional kaya's from kgt are way out of my price range. I am not concerned with it being tradtitional, sounding good or looking good. What i do care about is the durability and longevity of the board. The board should preferrably with proper care, last for the rest of our lives in good condition! I dont't know if this is possible with any goban, but it is the most preferrable scenario either way. So onto the main question: looking around on the web, I came across both an amazon seller, and yutopian selling pretty nice and thick Agathis floor gobans for a relatively reasonable price. From what i've read, Agathis is a strong durable wood, but perhaps lacking the aestethical qualities of kaya. How do you think a goban like this would meet my preferances? Is Agathis really a strong durable wood suiting a floor goban? What are it's downsides? Here is a link to the gobans in mind:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PL ... e=&seller=

https://www.yutopian.com/yutop/cat?prod ... category=t

Are these worth making my investment in? Or should i perhaps just wait it out and save up the money for a kgt kaya board?

On a side note, i also discovered an ebay deal (listed quite pricey) and wondered if you guys had an opinion on in quality judging from the pictures.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-VINTAG ... 35b55ec837

Thanks alot!

I'd be very happy with any of those if they showed up unexpected

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Judging from the picture of the ebay goban, I'd suspect it is actually New Kaya rather than Kaya. The grain is not really that tight and if it is rare to see Kaya boards with such straight grains in the wood cut at $4,000 to $5,000 new. It would be a lot more expensive new if it were genuine kaya.

Compare with the gobans shown at Kurokigoishi and look carefully at the cuts of wood and the grains of those gobans. Notice the pricing of genuine kaya vs. new kaya gobans.

http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... index.html
http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... index.html

Also read about and look at the gobans here:
http://www.kiseido.com/go_equipment.htm

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

The agathis boards all have a paint-like wash on the playing surface, rather than a completely natural-colored wood as do the high quality Japanese boards. I have no experience as to whether the playing surface of the agathis board would hold up under a lot of playing for years. The Japanese board on E-Bay is probably shin kaya (new kaya) which is not kaya at all but is spruce wood. These boards lose their luster after a few years of playing and age. Some people feel that both agathis and shin kaya (spruce) lack an appealing click sound when stones are played. The E-Bay board is way over-priced. For a used, dinged up board the price is too high. I think you could get a new spruce board in perfect condition for less money. As for agathis boards, Yutopian has nice ones for a lot less money than the Amazon sellere. I like the look of Amazon's 5.5" agathis floor board (table) for $330 including shipping. In your situation that's probably what I'd buy.

Thanks for the replies so far guys!
To be able to get everythibg ready n good time before christmas, i'll be ordering as soon as possible. Right now it's down to two options:

1. 5 1/2 inch Agathis floor goban from yutopian with Agate or Yunzi stones with jujube bowls from ymi( because i've read Agathis is a bit hard for slate shell and i agate and yunzi look nice). But I am still a bit concerned about the looks, feel and mostly durability/longevity of agathis.

2. Save up a bit longer for a 2-3 inch Kaya table board from kgt with std/moon grade slate and shell with s fitting bowl. And instead of having the floor goban, i will get a low coffee table to have in on. I know the looks and feel of Kaya is better, but How is the durability of Kaya compared to Agathis?

So, what do you guys think of these options with my preferences considered? I know i'm asking a bit difficult questions, but I had to give it a shot! Thanks again

I personally would go with option 2 (and in fact I did). Describe what you want and your price range to kgt and kiseido, you may be able to get a good offer from either / both. (I dealt with Kiseido and Richard was able to make me a very good offer)

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Didn't know you were open to a table-top board or I would have recommended it. I have one and enjoy it very much. At my age I find that I am not up to sitting on the floorfor very long, even on a cushion. But you should be aware of the fact that genuine kaya is a soft wood. It's very easy to dent it with a fingernail and playing go stones on it creates small dents. Personally I like the display of dents from stones; they are a sort of patina of use. It is routine in Japan for kaya boards to have the surface planed and new lines applied when the denting becomes too much. That treatment is not so easy to come by outside of Japan.

The proper care for a good kaya board is to buy a paulownia box to protect it

http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... index.html

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I see. These are some of the factors I am worried about concerning Kaya. I would rather not send it back/ travel to Japan to re-wax/ cut it down/ fix cracks etc. From what i've read on kurokigoishi there some to be quite some maintanence involved. I was hoping Agathis perhaps was more resistant to these changes?

You want to have a somewhat soft board which dents rather than a hard board which could end up hurting your stones. Most western players seem to view the normally expected dents as adding character to the board.

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A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I can understand that, but wouldn't using harder stones like yunzi or agate counter that problem?

I've never heard of a case of stones being damaged by playing on a wood board. Most cases of stone breakage come from stone-stone contact or from dropping stones on the floor. It is advisable to have a thin cushion or pad in the bowl for the white shell stones to absorb the shock when stones are put back in the bowl. Such a pad is not needed for glass stones.

By the way, shell stones need special treatment. Ideally you would wipe off the board and wash your hands before using the stones, to prevent dirt and excess skin oil from getting on the stones. Also, the shell stones should be re-waxed periodically or they become somewhat yellowed over a period of years.

I get a great deal of pleasure from my go equipment (kaya board, slate and shell stones, mulberry bowls) but for minimal care and maintenance I would get an agathis board and high quality (Japanese) glass stones. Probably chestnut bowls would match the other equipment. Japanese glass stones have a special composition that makes them less likely to chip or break compared to other glass stones. Furthermore, if a few glass stones become damaged it isn't a great financial matter.

That sounds like a lot of work. I usually dont mind that, but as long as theres maintenance i cant do myself, its a problem. There arent many goban repair guys in Norway :p and id also rather play with agate/yunzi stones which i read arent suited for kaya? I just want a board that will last longer than me, while still keeping the aestethics. I originally thought katsura for its hardness and durability, but it has gotten very expensive as well. So i started thinking about agathis. But it seems not many people usedit here, especially the thicker floor gobans. A seller on amazon even has one 7 1/2 inches thick for 800 dollars which really interests me! But at that price i could maybe get katsura?

I guess in the end i'm really asking which is more durable and long lasting: kaya, katsura or agthis? It actually does not matter if it is a floor board either and katsura is another good alternative being very durable. I found a well priced option on site called jzool:

http://jzool.com/product.php?productid=18227

What do you think about this? Are they a good trustworthy supplier? And how does katsura play with yunzi/glass stones? Is it hard enough? I'm sorry for asking too many questions, but i want to get it eight the first time!
Thanks again!

I own kaya, hiba, katsura, and agathis table boards and all have worked well for me. All of them have dents from energetically played or dropped stones. Katsura wood has become scarce in Japan so katsura boards have risen in price. You could buy a good kaya board for what jzool is charging for a katsura board. I think all these woods are adequately durable if they are not mistreated. I have a friend who has a 5.5" agathis floor board and plays on it with slate and shell stones (size 33, 9.2mm thick). His board has many small dents from stones being played and he has never broken a stone. Statements about what stones and bowls go with what board are almost always a matter of personal judgement.

jzool.com is an outlet for Japanese products including go equipment. I've never dealt with them. Their prices seem high but they offer free shipping.

Hmm.. That doesn't make my choice any easier :p i may have have worded myself badly, but dents are not the biggest concern. I am more worried about cracking, warping and the "tearing away" or wearing of the board. I feel to some degree that the extremely high price i would be paying for Kaya is not fully representing quality, but rather the extremely high demand/availability ratio. So I am thnking that I could get better "quality" for the same amound of money choosing another wood. But to make the question easier: In a most "bang-for-the-buck" kind of way, with mainly durability in mind, what would you rather go for? Budget: (maximum 900 dollars)

1. Kaya + slate n shell
2. Katsura + yunzi
3. Agathis + yunzi

Hello again!

For three days now, my wife and I have been staying at a friends place after work playing on his chinese cherrywood floor goban.
While it was not a very pretty thing, it certainly did it's job. But what I have come to realize after these intense
playing days, is that I do not any longer believe neither my wife nor I are made for playing on the floor. We are both quite tall and
stiff(I'm 6'4"), and after playing for such a long time, we both have persisting back pains, numb toes etc. I think I will rather find
her a nice coffetable with fitting chairs for a table goban.

I am placing my order tomorrow morning, and have come down on two choices. After doing some research, and talking to a korean friend,
I have learned that Agathis is the most common korean playing boards and was recommended an ordering site. They are supposedely very hard,
so they do not sound good, but they are very strong. At the same time I have gotten a good deal at KGT for a Kaya table goban with slate and
shell, but at a vastly different price. SO here they are:

1. hon Kaya table goban 6.5cm thick - one piece of wood, cover, outlet slate and shell moon grade with bowls $1150 (including shipping) - KGT
2. Agathis table goban 8.5cm thick - one piece of wood, korean professional agate stones with bowls and cover ~$250 (including shipping) - badukzon.com

So what do you think? Traditional expensive vs new cheap but durable?

If you want just a common go board that's durable, environmental, and does it's job, bamboo is a good alternative.
But if you are planning to invest in a good board because of you want to show the same love for the game to the love of your equipment, I'd vastly prefer a Japanese crafted kaya table goban with slate and shell stones. A one-piece kaya is a dream. A common agathis is so pedestrian. If you can afford it, go for the kaya.

You can check out my blog post on my one-piece kaya table board if you like. You can also see pictures of it with my thick slate and shell stones on this post.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I actually already have seen your equipment, and they are indeed beautiful. But I can't seem to get around the fact that a big part of the price I am paying for it with,
is artificially high because of the lack of Kaya trees and the high demand. And I also dislike that the shell stones seem to get brown with age. After talking to the owner,
he said the Agathis boards are hand made as well and have become high quality due to the fact they are the most used by professionals and in tournaments in Korea. Since kaya had
become so extremely expensive because of the rarity, they had to up the standard of Agathis boards as an alternative to kaya as high grade/quality boards.

But as it stands now I am most likely to go with Kuroki's kaya board, almost solely due to the extreme bueaty of it I am a bit concerned about warping due to the severe climate changes in Norway, with humid hot summers and very dry cold winters. I am also a bit angry about ordering because I know the customs will charge me 25% extra, but I guess it's unavoidable.

http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/a ... ecret.html
Read about how to care for a kaya board

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.