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Why buy slate and shell?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9921		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  foe [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Why buy slate and shell?
I've been using the size 36 glass ceramics from gogameguru for about six months. Was looking into perhaps upgrading to slate and shell so bought a sample of stones in size 36 and have a question.

They look extremely similar, aside from the striations on shell. They sound the same. The wobble is nearly identical.

What is the draw? If you prefer slate and shell, why?
The only main difference I can see is they are a bit more uniform in shape and the slate wobble a bit more audibly. Is this worth the cost? Maybe. I haven't decided. What do you think?
Author:  oren [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
I prefer slate and shell. I've played with yunzi, plastic, ing stones, and glass before. For the money, I'll take glass stones, but the feel and look of slate and shell is appealing to me.
Author:  DalekSnare [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Slate and shell are just nicer materials, not really for any functional reason. Glass feels cheap, maybe because it's the same material that people are always throwing away after drinking the contents. Slate and shell feel more like real materials instead of manufactured cheap things, if that makes sense. Japanese style shell has those neat lines, and while the Korean ones from 6 brothers don't really have that, they still have a faint pearly quality that makes the white glass stones look cheap in comparison, like crystallized globs of Elmer's glue.
Author:  Boidhre [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Why have a hardwood desk instead of a fiberboard/whatever one? It's an aesthetic choice. If you like glass and are happy with glass then, eh, you just saved yourself a nice bit of money?
Author:  Splatted [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
I don't understand it either. Though in my case it's not so much the price as that I can't see how anything can be so aesthetically pleasing as to be worth killing a living creature to make. That kind of behaviour never makes sense to me...
Author:  shapenaji [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
foe wrote:
I've been using the size 36 glass ceramics from gogameguru for about six months. Was looking into perhaps upgrading to slate and shell so bought a sample of stones in size 36 and have a question.

They look extremely similar, aside from the striations on shell. They sound the same. The wobble is nearly identical.

What is the draw? If you prefer slate and shell, why?
The only main difference I can see is they are a bit more uniform in shape and the slate wobble a bit more audibly. Is this worth the cost? Maybe. I haven't decided. What do you think?


I prefer single-convex Yunzis (I like the satisfying click and green tinge) but I think a big part of the interest in slate&shell is the way they feel. My impression was that shell stayed quite cool. I also notice a bit of a sound difference, with the shell being more muted.
Author:  foe [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Very interesting views. Thanks! The bit about Elmer's glue really resonates with me. I've thought the same, mainly from the inconsistencies where the stone may...lean a bit while on the board. Not all of them though, so not too big a problem for me. I suppose if I ever decide to buy a proper floor goban I will invest in the stones to go with it. But for casual use and studying it is not very important for me. I couldn't figure out why they pay more if general experience is the same. But I understand the nice wooden desk. Perfect anology.
Author:  foe [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Splatted wrote:
I don't understand it either. Though in my case it's not so much the price as that I can't see how anything can be so aesthetically pleasing as to be worth killing a living creature to make. That kind of behaviour never makes sense to me...


Isn't this more like cows with leather instead of elephants being poached for tusks? So long as the meat is being eaten and population levels are not allowed to sink too far. But... They did move to Mexico for shells. I do not know if it is because the preferred type are nearly extinct or just standard fishing etiquette.
Author:  Bonobo [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Pure fetishism.
·
·
·
“Guilty!”
Author:  lemmata [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
foe wrote:
What is the draw? If you prefer slate and shell, why?
They (subjectively) look and feel much nicer. I wouldn't go as far as the person who gave "pure fetishism" as an answer, but I suppose that fetishism plays some role. There is something to be said for setting the mood. ;-) I do really enjoy looking at pictures of nice equipment.
foe wrote:
Is this worth the cost? Maybe. I haven't decided. What do you think?
If you are thinking of "worth" as investment value, then the answer is probably no. If you judge "worth" based on consumption value, it depends on how wealthy you are and how much you enjoy the other things that you could not do if you spent that money on slate-and-shell stones.

If you are very wealthy, why not choose to own beautiful things? If you are not, then I think that you should think carefully about what else you could do with the money. You could save for your kid's college fund or get some regular go lesson from pros. If you are an artistic person, then perhaps it would be "worth" it.

One interesting bit: Some people I have talked to in person say that they wish they had stuck with glass stones and shin-kaya boards for longer. These people bought the lower-end of the slate-and-shell-plus-kaya luxury goods and ended up wanting to upgrade to even better slate-and-shell-plus kaya later. In short, their message was that you should play on cheap equipment as long as you can until you can save up for a set that you would want to keep for life instead of going through multiple upgrade cycles, which can be quite bad for your wallet as the secondary market is not very active.
Author:  foe [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
For me it would be artistic aesthetics as reason. But the majority of that is coming from the game itself, and glass is close enough. Excellent point about getting the lowest of the best before later deciding on best of best. Better to wait and be certain than jump early just to be there.
Author:  Bonobo [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
What you wrote:
foe wrote:
For me it would be artistic aesthetics as reason.

What I read:
foe wrote:
For me it would be artistic anaesthetics as reason.
:cool:

Cordially, Tom
Author:  gowan [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
I use glass stones for the go set I take with me for playing in the club or a coffee shop and it works fine. I don't think slate and shell stones improve my playing. However, I do prefer slate and shell stones. I haven't found any glass stones that are as uniformly regularly shaped as slate and shell. I think glass stones are made in molds from poured molten glass with no post-cooling adjustment of the shape. When they cool, slight irregularities develop which are noticable when you handle the stones. Since slate and shell stones are made by hand, stone by stone, there is better quality control of the shape.
Author:  tchan001 [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
As JF once said about go equipment:
John Fairbairn wrote:
if you've got it, flaunt it.
Author:  ez4u [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
If you have to ask... :blackeye:
Author:  Splatted [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
foe wrote:
Splatted wrote:
I don't understand it either. Though in my case it's not so much the price as that I can't see how anything can be so aesthetically pleasing as to be worth killing a living creature to make. That kind of behaviour never makes sense to me...


Isn't this more like cows with leather instead of elephants being poached for tusks? So long as the meat is being eaten and population levels are not allowed to sink too far. But... They did move to Mexico for shells. I do not know if it is because the preferred type are nearly extinct or just standard fishing etiquette.


I wouldn't kill a cow either. It's not about the economy of the system or the welfare of the species as a whole; It's about the individuals who lose their lives to create the product.

I'm not saying those who buy them are bad people and I don't expect anyone to change their world view because I posted a few sentences on the internet. I just wanted to share how I feel.
Author:  tchan001 [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
If I enjoy eating clams and I find that I could use their shells in a profitable venture rather than just throwing them away and taking up more space at the local landfill which is filling up fast, I don't really have a problem with the death of those individual clams.

If I were outdoors and there were many mosquitoes flying around trying to bite me, I have no problems with the death of those individuals either. I'd dare say I'd want them splatted as quickly as possible :)

If you were sick with bacteria, would you have problems with the death of those individual living organisms who die to ensure your well being?
Author:  FortyRock [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
Certainly gives a new perspective on life and death problems :)
Author:  ̄̄̄̄ [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
I once went in on a share of a cow, which we got to meet before being sent to the slaughterhouse. It was a little sad. Also delicious.

Clams though, even if the meat wasn't the primary product, I don't think I could muster up much empathy for them.
Author:  Bantari [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why buy slate and shell?
̄̄̄̄ wrote:
I once went in on a share of a cow, which we got to meet before being sent to the slaughterhouse. It was a little sad. Also delicious.

Clams though, even if the meat wasn't the primary product, I don't think I could muster up much empathy for them.

I remember hearing that lobsters don't feel pain because they don't scream when you toss them alive into a pot of boiling water.
We all have excuses to kill for our pleasures... and anyways, who cares about clams, they are slimy.
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