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 Post subject: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #1 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:41 am 
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Well, my previous post offering to sell all my wonderful Go magazines has elicited zero response! :cry: I know I am asking a lot for them; was hoping someone would appreciate them and value them as highly as I have done. (silly me!)

So, I'm certainly interested in taking offers -- or even any input as to what folks think would be a reasonable price, even if you don't want to buy them. Obviously, there's not a huge market for these magazines, so pricing them is difficult. I welcome any feedback. (Including any suggestions about where to spread the word about this!)

To recap (and also, see my earlier posting about this):

Go World: I have issues #1 through #126 (1977 to 2011) -- missing only the last three, 127 to 129.
Go Review: I have 153 of the 164 published issues spanning 1961 to 1977.

The magazines are nearly all in Very Good condition, some I rated as Good, and a few at Fair. One at Poor. I actually think I am under-rating them. I looked at this page (http://www.magazinecollector.co.uk/condition_ratings_for_magazines.php), and I think I could rate many at Fine, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder! And I didn't want to overstate the condition.

The first 4 issues of Go World are hard bound, the rest are loose. Most issues of Go Review are hard bound in annual volumes and the rest are loose and in plastic sleeves.

I created a spreadsheet with some more detail:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kx0ahI5D3hoas05gxbRhNt1CpTUbjvn_g-wuKAsyT5g

I will probably put these on eBay after the start of the new year.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #2 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:54 pm 
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I'm not put off by the price: It's around USD 3,23 per issue if you take them all. In my currency that would be around EUR 750 in total.

From a bibliophilic point of view I would certainly take them all. But unfortunately I have neither the space to store them nor to display them. And I'm also totally spoiled by Amazon when it comes to shipping costs (Europe for me).

I really wish they will become part of a beautiful go library!

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #3 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:01 pm 
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The shop Schaak en Go Winkel Het Paard in The Netherlands has advertised second hand Go Review in the past - currently no copies - though they still sell single copies of Go World. You could ask them about demand for these magazines. There is no index to Go Review when it was a monthly publication, so there won't be that much demand - although there are some magical articles hidden away in its pages.

I started subscribing to Go Review in January 1967 (when I started playing seriously) and I have all the magazines from then through to Go World number 67. Ten years ago I might have been interested in completing my collection of Go World, but not now - there is the reality of advancing years and insufficient time to do all those things I want to do. Reality bites! I still collect Go books though - but not as many as I used to.

It is possible that either the Seattle Go Centre or the Washington one might be interested; there was a library at the European Go Centre which included these magazines. There are active plans to open a Mind Sports Centre in London and the T Mark Hall Go Library will be housed there.

I think your prices look about right - off the top of my head US $5 per issue might be right, a collector trying to buy a few missing issues might pay more, a price around 50% of that looks good.

Good Luck

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #4 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:01 pm 
Oza

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Quote:
There is no index to Go Review when it was a monthly publication,


As far as I am aware this is still true, but Jochen Fassbender did do very detailed (nay, professional!) indexes for Go World and the quarterly Go Review. There are available in the GoGoD Encyclopaedia. He may have since got round to doing Go Monthly Review.

Quote:
It is possible that either the Seattle Go Centre or the Washington one might be interested; there was a library at the European Go Centre which included these magazines. There are active plans to open a Mind Sports Centre in London and the T Mark Hall Go Library will be housed there.


Washington tried to offload stuff onto T Mark, so I'm not sure they'd be interested. Can't remember the Seattle situation, but LA certainly weren't looking for stuff and did offload at least one calligraphic item.

The T Mark Library has been decimated by the London Go Centre. They have dumped almost everything because it was on paper. It was offered to London University Library and at first they jumped at the chance, but later went cold an wanted to cherry pick just a very few items (e.g. the Shusaku Collected Games. This is part of a long-running pattern of behaviour. The BGA had previously dumped its collection of Go Reviews and Japanese magazines, though in their case not because they were on paper but because of the cost and hassle of storage in private homes.

In fact, John T, you might recall the carefree attitude the Nihon Ki-in had to its own collection somewhere out in the suburbs. I can't remember the details but sure I'm John Power can.

The only other significant library I know of here is the Cambridge University one. At least I hope it's still there. They just announced they've lost some of Darwin's papers! I'm not familiar with that library but Charles Matthews is, and I assume you must be, too.

In my case, my wife complains she lives in a library. I haven't issued her a library ticket yet, but she's actually read more books than me. Just not go books :)

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #5 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:45 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
The T Mark Library has been decimated by the London Go Centre. They have dumped almost everything because it was on paper.


By "dumped" I hope you mean "sold", not "thrown away"...

I'm in a similar situation; I have far too many books (many hundreds) and want to part with at least half of them. Not because they are bad but because I would need several lifetimes to study them. #tsundoku

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #6 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:25 am 
Oza

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Quote:
By "dumped" I hope you mean "sold", not "thrown away"...


I mean thrown away, discarded, cast out, jettisoned, thrown on the rubbish heap, hoyed away, disposed of, got rid of, treated like a Christmas puppy. In short, it was dead parroted. It has become a Norwegian Blue.


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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #7 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:21 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
The only other significant library I know of here is the Cambridge University one. At least I hope it's still there. They just announced they've lost some of Darwin's papers! I'm not familiar with that library but Charles Matthews is, and I assume you must be, too.


Do you mean the University Library, or the Cambridge (University) Go Society one? Of the latter, last I knew it was several boxes in Alex Selby's garage. I "borrowed" a few items (such as Invincible) from there years ago and they are still on my bookshelf, they do have CUGOS scribbled inside the cover so I know which to return if needed and I don't feel too guilty as they get >0 use here compared to sitting in a box. I think some of the students may have a small part of the collection and lend bits out when a particularly organised person is in charge. Charles Matthews also has his own private collection, with lots of CJK books/magazines/game/problem collections. He was trying to get rid of some of those a few years ago and I took a few, but I don't really have much inclination to pore through Korean game collections when I have GoGoD, Lizzie, and the internet so I didn't take any more :). Matthew Macfadyen was having a clear out a few years ago and offered his Go World collection, that's something I would like, but I didn't have a car to collect them back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #8 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:39 pm 
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The one I "know of" (as opposed to "know", having just heard about it) has the name Sonoyama attached to it in my brain. My impression of how significant it is (was?) is also subject to the vagaries on what goes on in said organ - not very much nowadays.

The scene you describe seems typical of go clubs I have known in various countries, and since no-one has ever set out to plan it that way, I think we can assume it's natural behavior. I used to think go libraries faced a tough time because especially because very few people could read the various Oriental languages. But our local Caledonian society has been having great difficulty giving away books in English, and hardly any charity shops will take books nowadays. So, the next stage in explaining away the obsolescence of books is to say it's because they are on paper. But one of my daughters looked at me in horror today when I asked if she wanted to borrow my dvd of The Crown: "But it's on Netflix," she said.

People will be obsolescent one day, I suppose. Roll on Skynet, which has already set about exterminating go.

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #9 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:27 pm 
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Obsolescence might be the wrong word. In 2016 millenials' share of printed book readers was over 70% in the US. In 2019 over 80% in the age group 18-29 had read a book (any format, US again). Every other age group falls short in comparison. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/249 ... us-by-age/

But the consumation of printed books is indeed in slow decline. Audiobooks are on the rise. EBooks, not so much. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/222 ... in-the-us/

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #10 Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:17 pm 
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Sonoyama is also the name of the Cambridge club's 13x13 tournament, the trophy being donated by a Mr Sonoyama so maybe he also contributed to the library. He was associated with Hitachi I believe, possibly the microelectronics research Hitachi laboratory on the West Cambridge site (where one of my lecturers and supervisor for my 3rd year project was based).

John Fairbairn wrote:
So, the next stage in explaining away the obsolescence of books is to say it's because they are on paper.


Well, not quite yet: I've just bought your dead-tree version of Shuei having learned/been reminded of its existence over in Ian's thread!

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #11 Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:38 pm 
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To me the word "library" has more meaning than just a pile of books. I would like it to mean a collection of books, the result of having some rationale or plan for the collecting. Paper books are likely to be more archival than computer files so I think university libraries, at least, should maintain their collections of books on paper. Library collections provide important sources for historical studies. An example of academic historical importance is the step up represented by "deep learning" and the development of computer programs that can routinely defeat the best human players at go. The material on paper provides background for this important technological development.

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #12 Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:40 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Sonoyama is also the name of the Cambridge club's 13x13 tournament, the trophy being donated by a Mr Sonoyama so maybe he also contributed to the library.


I believe there is a conflation here. There was a collection of books donated to CUGoSoc by a Japanese visitor to the University of Cambridge. Dr. Sonoyama ever only passed through, being a busy and high-up Hitachi executive.

As far as books are concerned: it seems somewhat paradoxical to me that the preferred study method seems to have reverted, just about half a century on, to the time when I was first studying go. To life-and-death and openings, that is. That was the default kind of knowledge you could gain, round 1970, from books in Japanese, by looking at the diagrams and learning a handful of kanji.

First server go, then go databases, then go AI, have solved major problems we had those days, say in getting to 1d. Possibly 3d is the new 1d. I don't doubt that amateur standards are a lot higher.

My reaction to AlphaGo was that all the books should be rewritten. I think I should qualify that: ignoring the underlying human-built concepts is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

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 Post subject: Re: Go World, Go Review -- OK, maybe I'm asking too much!
Post #13 Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:12 pm 
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Three thoughts:

When you want to get rid of something, it means it no longer has the value to you it used to have. It can even have negative value like consuming space. Expecting anyone to relieve you from the burden for a price that represents the value it used to have to you, is extreme. Usually you meet somewhere halfway.

Whether print will make a come back, either due to its format or its versioned content, is hard to predict. I see how visual content today is eating away much of what used to be written. I often learn faster myself with youtube. I fixed my washing machine using a short movie and I can assure you fixing stuff doesn't come natural to me. 3Blue1Brown makes me wish I'd study math today, not when print (or notes!) was the only option.

I collect records. There's pleasure in having them and listening to them. Perhaps the biggest pleasure is the process of collecting itself. Each single acquisition is a new thrill. Acquiring someone else's collection is like overdosing.


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