It'd be expensive, but if the AGA is interested in increasing the strength of American pros, there should be some sort of sponsorship of pro tournament/league within North America, where they invite pros from CKJ. That way, AGA pros get several opportunities to play against established pros in Asia, and that game experience will result in an increased level of play all around. This seems to be similar to the model adopted by the Chinese league games where they invited, e.g., pro players from Korea.

Yeah - who is going to pay for it? I guess that's the main question. But more game experience with top pros from other countries seems invaluable.

I guess the alternative is to try to get AGA pros to participate in pro tournaments in Asia. Whatever the case, it seems important to establish more international games. *shrug*

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be immersed

I'm not so sure. I mean, sure, it'd be great to have more tournaments, no question about that. But the players do have opportunities, these days. OGS, KGS... Sure, it's not the same. It beats sending emails [*], and it's much cheaper than other alternatives. In any case, a European pro CAN play against an Eastern pro. It's not the same, sure, but I think it's a quite effective use of resources. IF we want to increase exposure to Eastern players in real life... There's a trove of Eastern qualified pros in the West that feels underused.

Now, assuming he's not that much different from other Western pros, it might be interesting to see how Ryan Li studies. His games at Western online tournaments are interesting; and his winning rate, nothing to brush aside. He does have a pocket-sized kenkyuukai at home, sure, and a dojo [+], but...

Now, from the outside, there are several things I don't like about the Euro/Transatlantic online league. But it is a... an ooteai, of sorts. It provides relatively frequent games for Western players [#]. And I think Tanguy le Calvé has managed to improve significantly, for example. In general, I'd have to check, but I think the games in the last league are much more "spongy" than the early ones; to me, it makes me think of better, more rounded, players. I also miss some players, from both Western societies and also immigrant players. Again, think e-ooteai.

We'll see. Whatever my hesitations, I do think there are many more options for Western go, immensely wider horizons, than 20 years before.

Take care.

[*] Or, gasp, FidoNet messages. Tried that, once.
[+] Teaching is usually not that conductive to improving, but I do see how *some* teaching (some hours a week, not a full time job) can lead one to explore reasons and other paths.
[#] Having several matches a day would improve that, but it wouldn't be as marketable. Possibly better for players, less so for watchers.

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一碁一会

There's a totally different feeling playing for a serious international tournament with cash prizes than playing a random game on the internet. Internet go servers have generally helped in closing the gap between amateur and pro, but I think serious tournaments are a different kind of beast, which would accelerate growth for the weaker participants.

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be immersed

Hm... Well... I didn't say "random".

I do acknowledge that screen play is simply not the same; I don't know to what extent young pros still feel that way, but I'll assume it until I'm convinced otherwise.

However, I do think that if we're trying to make it within a reasonable budget, online is the way to go for a while. I don't think, for example, the current prize chest of the Transatlantic League would cover transport to have all the players together, once. Much less for a league, and not even considering B&B. Getting a player "here" (US or EU; whichever) would be less expensive... but we already have those, do we not?

Off the cuff, I think making sure these new pros have access to the rest of the pros ALREADY in the West [*] would be a better use of resources. We cannot assume eternally deep pockets in the East [+]. If they want to sponsor a Tournament, great. If we can manage to create a Western Invitational with pros from Japan, Korean or Taiwan, fantastic. Meanwhile, I'm thinking baby steps. Once our players are at a level close enough to other West-resident players, then we can try to set up an invitational or something, LG-cup style.

Take care.

[*] Delendas Carthago and all that

[+] Otherwise, the EGC would still be open, and the one in the West Coast wouldn't have had to blast SUE its patrons. I don't know how that will have played into any future plans from Japan. Make that *ANY*.

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一碁一会

The next North American Pro Qualification Tournament is apparently set for August 16-21. Games are played live, but will be broadcast on KGS.

https://www.usgo.org/news/2021/08/2021- ... finalized/

https://nationalgocenter.org/content.as ... _id=67220&

https://nationalgocenter.org/content.as ... id=1504256


Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any information yet about who is playing. One of the sources above says 10 players. Another says 12.

No information is available about this at all on the NAGF web page:
https://nagofed.org/

Just got this email from the National Go Center:

The NAGF Pro Qualifier scheduled August 16-21 at the NGC has been cancelled due to concerns about international travel and the recent Covid surge. We would like to thank everyone who volunteered to help with this event and look forward to its rescheduling.

I agree that online go is easier and more practical.

I just claim that if the AGA is serious about having pros competitive in Asia, they need more serious competition with pros in Asia.

I don't think this is that controversial. Practicalities and details wpuld need to be worked out, of course.

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be immersed

Looks like the next pro qualifier tournament is back on. Twelve contenders for two spots.

https://nagofed.org/docs/2022-pro-quali ... -rules.pdf

Is Remi Campagnie European?

Nah... why would you say that?

My supposition is that he might be living (post-grad? job?) in the States or Quebec. The announcement last month states...



While iii) would seem to imply that the rest of the rules have to be met in their totality, I can't see it specifically stated. OTOH, I don't know if Canada has some sort of dual citizenship (or swap) agreement with France.

EDIT: HE also seems to have an entry in the USGO database...

Take care.

PS: Really, NAGF should step their communication slightly. Not even USGO's site has a link to this information. And I'm supposing, but I'd find likely that this was discussed in the same meeting that gave us information on AGA board elections. You really have to go check that information in the... third item in the top menu... which disappears the moment you scroll slightly, and presents you a different menu. Considering the "About Us" basically refers you to its founding members, I don't really see why it occupies a preferred spot in the main page. No mention on r/baduk or r/proweiqi that I recall...

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一碁一会

The pro qualification regulations for NAGF are here: https://nagofed.org/docs/2022-pro-quali ... cement.pdf
and for EGF: https://www.eurogofed.org/pros/EU-Pro-S ... -04-09.pdf

Rémi Campagnie participates in the 2022 NAGF pro qualification, and was a participant in the 2021 EGF pro qualification, so he probably has double nationality France-Canada.

Oh honey. You think these people have good communication skills or good go skills? They have one. The other is detritus. I would bet the AGA EJ doesnt post about it until like a week or two before. Just like they announced the info for the cancelled 2021 event at the end of the e-go congress. That info wasnt sent until the closing ceremonies was being prepped.

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Decisions are made by those who show up.
and possibly those willing to attend secret meetings in ancient basements

I was looking at the Canadian Go website https://canadiango.org/ Last news item was about the NAGF, but posted over 1 month after the match took place. Kind of a pity, since it was a nicely put together post.

If you have a professional organisation, it does seem really essential to co-ordinate publicity for each event you have. Otherwise you don't really have a business model. You surely need to be reaching the press and the public with an exciting message both before and after each event. I mean I know that's damn hard to do actually, but this qualifier event just appears to have zero publicity judging by my go-news-radar

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North Lecale

Hm... "Honey" can mean so many different things. If we were face to face and we could joke about it with facial expressions, it could be fun.

Thing is:

* AGA has sufficient communication skills to talk about local tournaments. Surely they have skills to talk about their professional system.
* NAGoFed lists people like Hajin Lee (fomer PR at the Hanguk Kiwon, IIRC), Michael Redmond (public commentator; besides his work with AGA, his own channell has 800 videos) and Ryan Li (whose dojo has over 300 videos on its channel). Now, I understand each of them has other time sinks, but still...

Dunno. Not my boat, I shouldn't rock it. But... it could sail so much smoother and farther...

My overall feeling is that AGA doesn't quite know what to do with its professional system. The transformation of the EPGL kind of proves that, IMO.

Take care.

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一碁一会

I'm surprised that the AGA does as well as it does given that it's run on $30 membership. I doubt the Board or any workers are receiving much pay for their time. In one of the e-journal newsletters it mentioned the Board authorizing some relatively small amount of "deficit." If the Board needs to authorize a deficit for a few thousand dollars than I guess North American Go is doing pretty given its budget.

I'm still waiting for some volunteer to enter my ranking data from 3 weeks ago.

A bigger question is whether the pros know what to do with the pro system. If they want a system that can provide a viable livelihood then the pros themselves will have to step up to the plate. They'll want to increase the size of their potential client base (i.e., the amateur go population) and actively search for sponsorship.

I agree it's a very important question. I'm not sure it's more important, though. And even if it were, that does not somehow magically evaporate the "responsibility" of the parents of the idea.

Take care.

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一碁一会

It's about incentives. Whoever thinks that the pro system is important should take action.

If an individual wants a world where they can make money as a pro through the AGA, they should take action to make change in the system to achieve that goal. If the AGA finds value in a pro system for go in the United States, then they should take action.

Currently, I suspect nobody cares that much. Lack of incentive means no reason for action. If some entity finds benefit in making a change, then it makes sense to do it.

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be immersed

Small reminder. The NAGF took over the pro system from the AGA and CGA. The AGA holds no power.

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Decisions are made by those who show up.
and possibly those willing to attend secret meetings in ancient basements

Indeed.



Then why exactly did they start it? This is not even throwing the baby with the bath water. It's leaving the bundle in the OR and expecting it to walk away on its own if he's got interest in staying alive. Any enterprise needs a certain nurturing in the beginning before it becomes independent.

Take care

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一碁一会