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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #41 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:00 pm 
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Have there been any changes at all since then? I feel KGS stalled since WMS is done. I mean why do so many people play on OGS instead of KGS?

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #42 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:08 pm 
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Pippen wrote:
Have there been any changes at all since then? I feel KGS stalled since WMS is done. I mean why do so many people play on OGS instead of KGS?

The difference is the correspondence games isn't it? If I look on both servers now (around lunch time in Tokyo), there are more live games on KGS than OGS (although not twice as many). Is that different at other times of the day?

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #43 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:09 pm 
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dfan wrote:
wms sold KGS three years ago.


Three years ago, when it was claimed that KGS had been sold, and people were speculating about who the new owners were, some admins pointed out that what WMS didn't say that he had sold KGS, only that ownership had been transferred. WMS might have donated KGS to the AGF, for all we know.

The official announcement says he ceded control.

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #44 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:17 pm 
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Jujube wrote:
I work, penance for my sins, as an IT consultant. More often than not, I work with clients that have these set phrases that drive me crazy:- "isn't it as simple as...", "couldn't you just...", "what would be good is if we...". And, I have to turn around and say: no, dammit, it's not just as simple as taking this spreadsheet and "sticking it in the database".

When I began as a programmer, a senior program told me someone at one of our clients often suggested changes to the client's software cold be done by rewiring. I suspect he was familiar with plugboards, which were used on some data processing equipment before electronic computers became common.

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #45 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:16 am 
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Marathon wrote:
When I began as a programmer, a senior program told me someone at one of our clients often suggested changes to the client's software cold be done by rewiring. I suspect he was familiar with plugboards, which were used on some data processing equipment before electronic computers became common.


That brings back memories. When I was a kid and computers were ACs, I got a small computer kit that worked by wiring. So the first computer program I wrote, which played a very simplified variant of checkers, was in Boolean algebra, which I converted to a wiring diagram.

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #46 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:28 am 
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Getting a bit off-topic now, but algorithm-as-circuit has come back into fashion with some surprising applications: see https://www.alexirpan.com/2016/02/11/se ... ation.html


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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #47 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:14 am 
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Marathon wrote:
dfan wrote:
wms sold KGS three years ago.


Three years ago, when it was claimed that KGS had been sold, and people were speculating about who the new owners were, some admins pointed out that what WMS didn't say that he had sold KGS, only that ownership had been transferred. WMS might have donated KGS to the AGF, for all we know.

The official announcement says he ceded control.


I believe this post was also from wms: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/175662 ... 3#25523313

I don’t know any specific details.

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #48 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:30 pm 
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The American Go Foundation is pretty transparent about how they run their business. The 2018 Treasurer's report has a lot financial details relating to KGS:

http://agfgo.org/downloads/AGFTR18.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #49 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:07 pm 
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I used to be a KGS+ subscriber way back when. Now, KGS+ is based on donations, but I cannot stand to listen to it, due to the comically bad audio quality.
It would be really nice to have audio quality that does not sound like from the previous century.

I grew up (as a Go player) on KGS and back then, installing Java was not a problem for anybody. It is the native client and native clients have their merits, too. However, the native client today looks exactly the same as 10 years ago.
So my point is: do not invest all resources into new clients, but update the native one, too.

Biggest feature wish: Voice countdown in byo-yomi (it is standard now, every other server has it).

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #50 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:26 am 
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mhlepore wrote:
The American Go Foundation is pretty transparent about how they run their business. The 2018 Treasurer's report has a lot financial details relating to KGS:

http://agfgo.org/downloads/AGFTR18.pdf


For the lazy but interested:

Code:
Per July 31, 2018 (USD)
Income
KGS transfer + income: 10,460.37

Expenses
KGS Web Maintenance:    4,488
KGS Admin Service:      3,600
KGS Pro Services:       9,541.56
                      -----------
        Total Expenses 17,629.56

Gain/(Loss)            (7,169.19)


For comparison: lichess.org costs as of today (I would have taken OGS but can't find any numbers)
Code:
Per August 9, 2020 (yearly costs, USD)
Income
- donations not disclosed -

Expenses
Total Server Costs:    55,961
Main Developer Salary: 26,966,29
Site Administrators:   36,000
Tournament Payouts,
Chess Content &
Tournament Coverage:   30.000
Misc (incl taxes):     41,208.86
                      -----------
       Total Expenses 190,136.15


As of now:
Code:
        KGS      Lichess      OGS   
Users   700      54,000      2,400
Games   220      22,000         90 (live)/29,000 (correspondence)


Some "easy" observations (KGS vs Lichess):
0) OGS is not even a contender if you want to play live games.
1) Lichess has roughly ten times the server costs (compared to web services) for roughly 90 times the games and users.
2) Lichess has ten times the admin costs for roughly 90 times the games and users.
3) Lichess' costs for extra services (tournament payouts & coverage and chess content) is roughly three times higher than KGS' pro services... for roughly 90 times the games and users.

"Easy" because on its server side Lichess also offers a lot more than KGS. First and foremost free analyses of all games, then opening explorer, problems/studies and other training tools and a community area...

Conclusions?

I still believe there is a niche for a western go server. OGS does not move its consumer experience forward, too. And OGS' player base seems to be primarily in the kyu-area (live games).

KGS has a healthier player base in my opinion and should have more pull name-wise. Since the underlying construct works, my first inclination would be to focus on making a pleasant (webbased) consumer experience (UI/UX design).

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #51 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:41 am 
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SoDesuNe wrote:
Since the underlying construct works, my first inclination would be to focus on making a pleasant (webbased) consumer experience (UI/UX design).


Speaking as a contract bridge director, one important thing that I learned, not in the director's training course, but on the job, is that one of the most important jobs of the director is to provide a pleasant, welcoming atmosphere and an enjoyable experience to players. I think that goes double for online administrators, because of the lack of FTF human contact.

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 Post subject: Re: How to make KGS better?
Post #52 Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:05 am 
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I just spent way too much time trying to shrink my new avatar image down from 14K to the allowed 7K. Relaxing the size restriction to 15K would make life easier for users, I think.

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