I like definition 3 from dictionary.com "the power to determine action without restraint". I might substitute power for ability. It isn't OK to scream fire in a movie theater, but the point of freedom is that nobody gets to tell you not to anyway. Freedom isn't concerned with what is OK, only that everyone gets to do what they want. If you can only do what ever you want as long as everyone agrees that isn't freedom.

Ps. America obviously doesn't have freedom of speech. I don't think we should change that, but I think we should Amend the constitution to say what we mean.

edit: it occurs to me that the above statement is of questionable permissibility because it is related to politics. That wasn't my intent, I was trying to use an example to clarify my point. If a admin objects, I wouldn't mind if it were taken down.

With your definition, freedom never exist.

If I want to kill you, and you don't want to die, there is a conflict between our respective 'freedom'.

"My freedom ends where someone else's begins."


Because we're not alone, but live in society, freedom is always a compromise.

There can be Freedom of _____. Obviously no one should Freedom to do anything. Freedom of speech is possible. Freedom of information is possible.

edit: Freedom doesn't mean you get what you want. It just means you can do what you want.

Right. You can type whatever you want into your computer, but that won't make it show up on the forum.

Well I have said several times that I don't think freedom of speech should be granted. I just think that we should be using accurate terminology in our discussions.

To cut to the chase, to those who think 'freedom' means 'i can do anything i want', I can say - look at it like that:
Yes, you can do anything you want. But then the world can do anything it wants to you in return. Freedom works both ways.

If you don't like the consequences, think before doing. But you are free to do, of course. Your choice.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Having freedom means being able to do whatever you want. Having freedom of something (speech for example) means being able to do what ever you want with respect to that thing.



No you can't. Don't be absurd. A society where anyone can do anything they want to anyone would collapse instantly.



This isn't true either. Part of Freedom is the ability to avoid punishment.

speedchase, can you give an example of a place that meets your definition of freedom of speech?

To my knowledge none exist (except the comments on youtube videos). And no, I don't think that means that I should revise my definition.

4chan.

And no. Don't go there to check.

What term would you use to describe the situation in America?

Idiocracy?


(just kidding. Don't hate me. I know plenty of brilliant Americans. )

It so happens that this example comes from one of the most extreme judicial statement in support of censorship in our nation's history, and one which was later overturned.

(I do not, however, know the exact status of shouting fire in a crowded theatre today in 2012).

I am only sharing this because I find it's a nice bit of history, not because I want to comment on KGS.

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Occupy Babel!

hyperpape, thanks. Very interesting.

Ok... so:
First - you say that 'do anything you want' without consequences is absurd because society would 'collapse instantly.'
Then - you say that 'part of Freedom is the ability to to avoid punishment.'

I hope you can see the absurdity of this whole situation. And this thread:
First - there is a statement that there is no Freedom of Speech on KGS (like its a bad thing.)
Then - there is a definition of 'Freedom of Speech' (say anything anywhere anywhen without consequences) which is not only impossible to implement, but undesirable even if it was possible.

The whole thing is absurd.
Glad we agree.

PS>
Unless we look at Freedom in general, and Freedom Of Speech in particular differently - this discussion is pretty idiotic, starting with what the OP said.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

I've said several times that I don't think true Freedom of speech is a good idea. Maybe if you read some of my posts instead of just being self righteous about everything you'd be less confused.

Sorry... just wondering what was your point then.
You disagree with me? You agree with me? With the OP? Just making side comment? Trying hard to contribute but not knowing how? Yeah... confusing.

From what you say above - it seems you agree with me: Freedom of Speech, as defined here by some (can say anything) is not a good idea. And not desirable.
And yet you seem to disagree with what I say.
Yeah... confusing.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Are people trying to fill Jasiek's definition discussion quota or something? Perhaps more people enjoyed his discussion style than they professed to doing.

If someone comes into my house and I don't like what he is doing, then I can kick him out. End of story, right? You can say that I am a meanie for kicking you out, but not that I violated your rights.

We do not have to get into a high-level philosophical discussion about the meaning of freedom. That seems quite tiring. No one likes getting tired, right?

Absolutely not! There is no plot to maintain any kind of quota whatsoever. That's crazy talk.


To avoid making that kind of mistake again, you should read chapters six to eight of my book.




Working through everyone else's holidays is pushing my humor to the dark side.

On the subject of Yahoo Go, playing there was one of the reasons I quit playing Go back in 2005 or so (when I originally picked it up) because the rating system Yahoo uses does not work well for a game like Go. Most of my matches ended up being squash matches for my opponents.

It's fortunate I discovered this forum and KGS in 2010 otherwise I likely never would have gotten to where I am today. People can complain about KGS all they want, but I've very rarely had problems on it. And in my experience, KGS is the best site to play Go on.

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Slava Ukraini!