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| What bothers you about being escaped on? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=524 |
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| Author: | dfan [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I was wondering what in particular bothers people when someone escapes from a game of theirs. In particular, I'm interested in the question of why is it insufficient to just pretend on your end that when someone escapes he has effectively resigned. Ideally this thread will consist purely of people calmly listing their problems with being escaped on rather than a flamefest about what any given server should do about those problems (it looks like we already have a thread for that  ).
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| Author: | Tryphon [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I just find it rude. I don't care about rating (anyway, I'm weak), I feel the same if I am escaped by a stronger opponent who'd say "not interesting to play with you", or when my opponent don't even write "hello", or just "hi", "hf", "gg" showing that I'm not even human enough for him to write complete words. |
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| Author: | HKA [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
So I responded. Folks escaping on me do bother me, although, in my human imperfection I do aspire to Bantari's view that I should not let it bother me. First off, let me say it is not that he did not acknowledge he lost. In fact, I often laugh to myself on that issue, because he SOOOOO acknowledged that he lost. For me it is the rudeness, rudeness usually born of learning online and not recognizing that we are and should be a community - a small community that cannot afford to lose folks who find things to be simply not fun because of this and other behaviors. I am confident that there is an absolute inverse ration between actual club and face to face play vs escaping. In other words, the more you actually play face to face, the less chance you would ever escape. This number one choice for me is a bit imperfect, it bothers me whether the game is free or not, but obviously it bothers me more if it is rated. So I also clicked missing out on the rating points. This is minor, but if I have lost three and a row, and then crush an escaper, I must admit it bothers me. I also clicked folks might think I am an escaper, but this is a minor, but present issue. Recently I had an issue. I was playing a game, and it became clear that my daughter was suffering from a concussion, and my wife needed me to help her to the hospital. Fortunately I was playing someone I have played often, but we do not know each other. I assume he believed me when he responded "Okay" to my explanation of taking my daughter to the hospital and that I was leaving. But, with the escapers out there, maybe he didn't. Anyway, that game was finished later, and, Melanie is fine. But again, try not to get too upset - getting upset just gives them another triumph. |
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| Author: | kirkmc [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
What bothers me is the rudeness, plus the time I committed to the game that is treated as worthless by my opponent. |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
The same way it'd bother me if I was talking with someone and they decide to turn my back and leave while I'm still talking to them. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I'm also curious of what people think about the following, in terms of proper ettiquette: Say you are playing a random person you've never played before, and an emergency comes up. Should you tell the person and request to resume later, or should you resign? The former option might make the person think you are an escaper and be turned off, especially if they are a bit ahead. The latter can screw up the rating system. What do you think? |
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| Author: | topazg [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
It really doesn't bother me. I suppose I've stopped caring about my ratings, rank, or my win/loss record any more. The one thing I'd miss is I like the politeness of welcoming the opponent, and thanking them at the end, so I'd miss that. But no more from an escapee than a resignation. I'd rather he said thanks for the game and escaped than resigned and left without saying anything. I would like the ability to simply remove the game from the gamelist though - leaving it hanging grates on my OCD for tying up loose ends Response to Kirby: Wouldn't mind. I suspect that's rare enough that it wouldn't mess up the rating system, and if they had to go they can if they like, whether the game resumes or not doesn't bother me (apart from getting it off an "incomplete games" list - see above  )
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| Author: | Phelan [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I voted rude, and only that. I don't think I'd mind if someone told me they were tired of the game and went away. It's the non-communication that I hate. I haven't had many escapers, though. I only have a few unfinished games (maybe just 1), and those were people that said they had to leave, had no more time to play, or something like it. Maybe it was an excuse, but I don't care, I prefer it that way. |
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| Author: | Stable [ Thu May 13, 2010 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
If it's a real emergency kirby you might not have time to do anything. But if they have to go I'd rather people went and came back later to finish the game (even if we never bump into each other again it's worth a try). |
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| Author: | TMark [ Thu May 13, 2010 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I think the poll has possible mis-statements included. Since the escaper will eventually lose the game by forfeit, surely the game will count will count for rating points? The rudeness bothers me; in a club environment I doubt that someone who got fed up with a game and walked out would ever be welcomed back. Best wishes. |
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| Author: | tj86430 [ Thu May 13, 2010 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
Kirby wrote: I'm also curious of what people think about the following, in terms of proper ettiquette: Say you are playing a random person you've never played before, and an emergency comes up. Should you tell the person and request to resume later, or should you resign? This has happened to me once. I suggested that we continue later, (s)he declined, I resigned. |
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| Author: | Marcus [ Thu May 13, 2010 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
The only thing I really care about is how easily I can find my next game. As the italics pile up (not often, but I do sometimes get a few escapers in a row), it makes it harder to challenge people. As stated in the other thread, though, I have begun to use Automatch, which eliminates this difficulty nicely for me. |
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| Author: | mic [ Thu May 13, 2010 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
Even though I shouldn't be attached so much to my rank it provides a measurement of my progress and I want to have the win (and finally the change in my rank) recorded. What bothers me much more are opponents that have lost according to their position, wait until counting and then resign... That's rude in my eyes. Mich |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Thu May 13, 2010 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
i voted others. i really dont care. i dont want my rating to go up too high were i have to concentrate to win. i guess that is why i am only 3D in kgs. |
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| Author: | Jedo [ Thu May 13, 2010 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I'll be perfectly honest, it's definitely the rating thing that bothers me. I see an escape as an admission of a loss, so that part doesn't matter so much. However it can be frustrating to not get credit for a win. |
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| Author: | HKA [ Thu May 13, 2010 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
mic wrote: Even though I shouldn't be attached so much to my rank it provides a measurement of my progress and I want to have the win (and finally the change in my rank) recorded. What bothers me much more are opponents that have lost according to their position, wait until counting and then resign... That's rude in my eyes. Mich Yes, I think that is rude. I told a person on KGS I thought that it was rude once. He had finished the game, removed prisoners, I had pressed done. And at this point he resigned. Again, people would never do this face to face. He responded "Why is it rude, what is the difference?" I said - "you tell me, you chose to resign - what is the difference?" While we are on rudeness. When I finish a game, I type "Thank you for the game". I have stopped worrying about folks who simply log off. And I certainly am willing to accept "Thanks" or even "thx". I am trying to accept "th". It may take me a while to accept "t". BUT, what I would appreciate, is folks who do grant me their abbreviated gratitude, PLEASE hang around long enough for me to type my sentence. |
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| Author: | BaghwanB [ Thu May 13, 2010 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
Kirby wrote: I'm also curious of what people think about the following, in terms of proper ettiquette: Say you are playing a random person you've never played before, and an emergency comes up. Should you tell the person and request to resume later, or should you resign? The former option might make the person think you are an escaper and be turned off, especially if they are a bit ahead. The latter can screw up the rating system. What do you think? I'd resign. Things happen and no rating will be perfect for very long so I try not to worry about that aspect much. But as to the bigger question, it's a matter of respect. I volunteered my time to play a game with the person on the other end and I'd expect both of us to honor that decision to actually play it out. Escaping says to me, "I don't care about this game or you." Fine, don't care about the game, but at least acknowledge the person on the other end and don't just wander away from the board. Picture what your reaction would be if this happened in F2F play. I don't think I'd set a good example for others... Bruce "GOM" Young |
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| Author: | SpongeBob [ Thu May 13, 2010 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
Kirby wrote: Say you are playing a random person you've never played before, and an emergency comes up. Should you tell the person and request to resume later, or should you resign? That is what the resuming possibility is for, right? The majority of my opponents, I play them for the first time and I do not see a reason not to ask for resuming. But if I figure that they do not want to, I will resign. However, I would only ask for resuming if the game is still open. Maybe further discussions on this should go into a fresh new thread.
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| Author: | ross [ Thu May 13, 2010 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
1) I do find it rude and juvenile, and that bothers me a little. 2) If it's a rated game, I feel like it's wasted a little of my time—I don't get a lot of time to play rated games, so every escaped game (particularly if the escape happens near the very end) takes a little bit of that away from me and makes it a little more likely that I'll have a question mark or won't really be solidified in rank. 3) I have a personality where I like things to be finished. In this way it's like Hikaru and his unfinished game against Isumi—the game and its patterns weigh on my mind in a way that wouldn't be the case if it had finished. This effect is biggest when the escape happens during the middle-game, such as during a complicated fight. All in all it's not a big nuisance—each of these effects are small, and I don't get escaped on often. But I do share a dislike of KGS's escaper policy. These problems could be so easily solved and make a lot of people happier about playing on KGS, but instead they are more or less ignored or shrugged off. Why, when such simple changes could make things so much better? |
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| Author: | Andrea [ Thu May 13, 2010 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What bothers you about being escaped on? |
I voted other. I follow the maxim: "You can't control others, you can control yourself". I won't pretend I never feel irritation at other people's behaviour, but that's my problem, and I'm working on it. It's a work in progress...
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