Life In 19x19 :: KGS rank shift?

Another question: Is a KGS 1d about a "real" 1d or far off from that?

Did somebody change the ranking/rating system, because I recognised an unusual jump in my graph.

I was watching and game and a couple of people were talking about the ranks all jumped. I didn't notice it myself, but it is not impossible.

Hm...I don't know but would u feel saying if asked "I'm a danplayer" if you are 1d on KGS? I know it's not easy, but in the end I could invent a rank system that starts with 5d, but if somebody asked me what my rank is I would feel I cheat if I say: 5d. Does my point come across

Pippen wrote:

There's a big difference between inventing your own system, and having a rank on a server with a huge number of active players

Yeah, it was just an example to show you my point: e.g. wouldn't it be a bit embarassing if you state that you are a 1d and then some 3k EGF beats you easily? It's a real problem that there are so many rank & rating systems. I just checked it at senseis.xmp.net.

Besides, in Europe almost every Go-player has a KGS account so they can relate ^^

SoDesuNe wrote:

Besides, in Europe almost every Go-player has a KGS account so they can relate ^^

Not sure about that. According to my experience only about two of three of my tournament opponents has an account on KGS, and half of them very rarely play on KGS (i.e. they play more tournament games than games on KGS, just like me).

There is definitely a rank shift for some of us.

I've been too busy with other stuff to play serious games on KGS for about four months. Back then, I was 1K. That probably was accurate, for in December I played in a face to face AGA tournament, beating two 1Ds, losing to a 2D and a 2K. That's approximately 1D AGA performance, which is about 1K KGS.

On KGS, I am now 4 dan. :lol:

I gained 4 ranks in about 4 months without playing any rated games.

Author:	Pippen [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	KGS rank shift?
Did somebody change the ranking/rating system, because I recognised an unusual jump in my graph. Another question: Is a KGS 1d about a "real" 1d or far off from that?

Author:	oren [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
What is your definition of "real"?

Author:	daal [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Another question: Is a KGS 1d about a "real" 1d or far off from that? Is that a real question or far off from that?

Author:	xed_over [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Did somebody change the ranking/rating system, because I recognised an unusual jump in my graph. most likely this: http://www.gokgs.com/help/anchor.html

Author:	Dante31 [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
It's a real kgs 1d.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

KGS rank shift? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5610	Page 1 of 2

Author:	speedchase [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
I was watching and game and a couple of people were talking about the ranks all jumped. I didn't notice it myself, but it is not impossible.

Author:	Dante31 [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
speedchase wrote: I was watching and game and a couple of people were talking about the ranks all jumped. I didn't notice it myself, but it is not impossible. It is very common for ranks to jump on kgs. That is just the nature of their system. When they change their 'anchor' the ranks change.

Author:	Pippen [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Hm...I don't know but would u feel saying if asked "I'm a danplayer" if you are 1d on KGS? I know it's not easy, but in the end I could invent a rank system that starts with 5d, but if somebody asked me what my rank is I would feel I cheat if I say: 5d. Does my point come across ?

Author:	oren [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Yes, if you are 1d on KGS, I'd say it's fair to say you are a dan player.

Author:	topazg [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Hm...I don't know but would u feel saying if asked "I'm a danplayer" if you are 1d on KGS? I know it's not easy, but in the end I could invent a rank system that starts with 5d, but if somebody asked me what my rank is I would feel I cheat if I say: 5d. Does my point come across ? There's a big difference between inventing your own system, and having a rank on a server with a huge number of active players

Author:	hyperpape [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
I drifted from 2k to 1k, so I have to say, the ranks seem at least as real to me now as they did three months ago.

Author:	Pippen [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
topazg wrote: Pippen wrote: Hm...I don't know but would u feel saying if asked "I'm a danplayer" if you are 1d on KGS? I know it's not easy, but in the end I could invent a rank system that starts with 5d, but if somebody asked me what my rank is I would feel I cheat if I say: 5d. Does my point come across ? There's a big difference between inventing your own system, and having a rank on a server with a huge number of active players Yeah, it was just an example to show you my point: e.g. wouldn't it be a bit embarassing if you state that you are a 1d and then some 3k EGF beats you easily? It's a real problem that there are so many rank & rating systems. I just checked it at senseis.xmp.net.

Author:	hyperpape [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Yeah, it was just an example to show you my point: e.g. wouldn't it be a bit embarassing if you state that you are a 1d and then some 3k EGF beats you easily? It's a real problem that there are so many rank & rating systems. I just checked it at senseis.xmp.net. Even within one rating system, there can be big differences--between US East and West coasts for instance. There's only one way to fix the problem. Play all games without handicaps and have the losing player cry after being crushed, just like in Hikaru.

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Yeah, it was just an example to show you my point: e.g. wouldn't it be a bit embarassing if you state that you are a 1d and then some 3k EGF beats you easily? It's a real problem that there are so many rank & rating systems. I just checked it at senseis.xmp.net. I always tell my KGS rating because it's the most solid one. I play tournaments maybe two or three times a year but on KGS I play every week. Nonetheless, I always say I'm this rank on KGS. Besides, in Europe almost every Go-player has a KGS account so they can relate ^^

Author:	Mef [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
All a ranking system can hope to do is to be internally consistent, and ideally provide a reference point for handicapping. As many others have mentioned you can pick whatever rank you have that you feel reasonably represents your strength (and if you are really worried about it you can add the necessary label, saying 1d KGS/IGS/AGA/EGF/wherever you got it). The systems should hopefully have reasonable correlation between them, but that's not to say there won't be people who have discrepancies even if they are functioning perfectly. Just some examples - A player might have an AGA rank that is 3 stones stronger than their KGS rank...but it might be that they play blitz games on KGS after coming home from a stressful day at work, and they only play AGA tournaments on long weekends when they are well rested -- it might just be that they are several stones stronger when playing at AGA events relative to the average KGS game. You could also have the opposite, perhaps you have plenty of time to play relaxed games online at home, but when you make the trek to get to a real-life tournament it means you drove all night the night before, got a poor night's rest at a cheap motel you were splitting with 3 friends you carpooled with, and are strung out on coffee the day of the tournament. Moral of the story is don't worry too much about rank, how you describe it and how you announce it, so long as you're honest....instead just focus on the playing you will be backing it up with (=

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Author:	karaklis [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
SoDesuNe wrote: Besides, in Europe almost every Go-player has a KGS account so they can relate ^^ Not sure about that. According to my experience only about two of three of my tournament opponents has an account on KGS, and half of them very rarely play on KGS (i.e. they play more tournament games than games on KGS, just like me).

Author:	Sur [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Pippen wrote: Hm...I don't know but would u feel saying if asked "I'm a danplayer" if you are 1d on KGS? I know it's not easy, but in the end I could invent a rank system that starts with 5d, but if somebody asked me what my rank is I would feel I cheat if I say: 5d. Does my point come across ? I'll call myself dan player after I reach it in EGF rating (it takes cca 3d KGS in our conditions). Right now, I call myself 13-kyu even when I have a 5-kyu @KGS. But everyone's perception is different. Mine is caused by going to the tournaments and knowing a lot of 'real' people in our go community. If one plays most of his serious games on KGS, it's only fair he calls himself 1-dan if he reaches it there. You can't blame him and force him to use ranking system you use/like the most

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
There is definitely a rank shift for some of us. I've been too busy with other stuff to play serious games on KGS for about four months. Back then, I was 1K. That probably was accurate, for in December I played in a face to face AGA tournament, beating two 1Ds, losing to a 2D and a 2K. That's approximately 1D AGA performance, which is about 1K KGS. On KGS, I am now 4 dan. I gained 4 ranks in about 4 months without playing any rated games.

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
karaklis wrote: SoDesuNe wrote: Besides, in Europe almost every Go-player has a KGS account so they can relate ^^ Not sure about that. According to my experience only about two of three of my tournament opponents has an account on KGS, and half of them very rarely play on KGS (i.e. they play more tournament games than games on KGS, just like me). If it's a five-round-tournament and three of your opponents have a KGS account, I count that as "almost every Go-player" ; )

Author:	daal [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: KGS rank shift?
Joaz Banbeck wrote: There is definitely a rank shift for some of us. I've been too busy with other stuff to play serious games on KGS for about four months. Back then, I was 1K. That probably was accurate, for in December I played in a face to face AGA tournament, beating two 1Ds, losing to a 2D and a 2K. That's approximately 1D AGA performance, which is about 1K KGS. On KGS, I am now 4 dan. I gained 4 ranks in about 4 months without playing any rated games. This is probably mostly rank drift, not shift, and if you give the system a bit more data to work with, it will give you a reasonable rank again fairly quickly - but if you want to call yourself a kgs 4d, nobody's stopping you