I still have no idea how to beat their influence. I'm not really sure why I thought of this move, I just think it's the one that seems to work best with all our stones.

I've won games that looked a lot more hopeless than this one...

As black I might consider something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8 - 0 , W=3 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . . . X . |
$$ | . . a 5 3 4 . . . . B W X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . 1 , W 6 . . . W B B O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . B B B O . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 2 . . . . . . . B O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black gets a big corner while undercutting white at Whites influence it offset by blacks marked stones (I don't know if this is a good trade for black, but it seems hard for my little ddk brain to imagine a good use for the stones because of the marked white stones. So why not trade "something like influence" for cash while not giving white anything)
I also don't see any good outcome for black if he plays (a) or (b) instead of

Your marked stones are already connected. Below, the marked stones are already dead. Take it as an exercise to see why.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8 - 0 , W=3 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . . . X . |
$$ | . . a 5 3 4 . . . . B W X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . 1 , W 6 . . . W B B O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . B B B O . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 2 . . . . . . . B @ @ X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Don't worry. I'm not trying to sacrifice those stones. I've already concluded that those stones are alive. What I'm trying to get is the maximum amount of territory, and I think the corner invasion is bigger than any side extension. Of course I could be totally wrong but I really don't see black getting a lot of territory with plays like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8 - 0 , W=3 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . 1 . . W X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The aji of and the ability to reduce at (a) seems to limit black potential extremely. (Also white could just protect the corner, It would be huge!!)
But if black tenukis, this picture looks pretty good for white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8 - 0 , W=3 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . 1 , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure he still has the weakness at (a), but whites framework is starting to look really secure. My point is is urgent and I don't see a really bad result for black because the standard joseki's result in influence for white. Even if white tries a different joseki he is hampered by black's thick wall.


So to recap how I reached my decision:

1. White is trying to build a framework on the left but has a big weakness because of the 4-5 point
2. If white patches up that weakness, it would have a nice framework, so that means we have to invade NOW
3. If we invade, what are whites standard answers and are they bad for us?
4. Conclusion: all possible responses I know lead to a bad result for white. Our wall really allows us to mess with the standard josekis, but thereby looses its potential to make territory
5. Did our wall have a possibility to make any amount of meaningful territory? Not to my eyes, so the above variations become very realistic.

Now my analysis could have several weaknesses:

1. There are more urgent points on the board than my invasion
2. Whites framework is not as dangerous as I thought
3. There is some unseen variation that lets black die horribly (<- very likely)
4. Our wall has more potential than I though and I just wasted it needlessly

I'm going to stay calm and approach from the outside. I'm not really too worried about their moyo yet because they still owe a move to enclose their top left corner, and all I really need is one solid group in that area and I can easily close it out to endgame.

Another move I considered:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm42 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=8 - 0 , W=3 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is a good invasion point that makes miai of a and b. However, I don't fancy I will get sente to come back to the bottom double wing, and that could be really trouble some to invade if I let them close the corner. It also plops me right in the middle of the White stones, which feels like an act of desperation - and I don't need to be desperate to win this game. White can't even quite protect his corner with the 3-4 enclosure: I my influence on the top right means that I could utilize the aji below as the beginnings of an invasion (9 doesn't look quite right and I probably won't play this way, but just to show the general idea):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Hypothetically
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . 6 8 O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . 5 . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lastly, White's ponnuki doesn't really have a base yet, establishing a position on the bottom in the far future *could* leads to all kinds of fun, who knows.

I don't like the lack of flexibility here. We're headed for simple, known josekis that Phelan can't miss even if he is rusty; josekis that wind up with us having lttle choice but to run into the corner and get locked in while white gets the outside wall. That wall, when combined with the circled white stones, is worth more to white than the corner is to us.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . W . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O 6 . . . . , . W O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . 1 . 2 . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 0 4 . . . , . W O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 5 7 8 1 . 2 . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The secret to invading/reducing in a situation like this is to be flexible and keep options open. So I'm going to go for something right in the middle of the white formation, with options of continuing to the north or the south.

BTW, the logic above could also dictate playing 'a' below. But I prefer the move that I made because it works with the circled wall and a possible play at 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O B B O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . O . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You can feel this boshi drawing power from the other black stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O B B O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR O7 F9 }
$$ { AR L14 F11 }[/go]

Note how integral the squared black stone is.

Yay, they used a correction!

I'm not convinced that Joaz's move is great. Well, it's probably an improvement, but it's not one that I would play.

I'm undecided between a and b. a works better with the stones we just played to the bottom, but b seems to work well with the 5-4 above.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . C . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

*noooooo*

Knight's jump works on 3rd line, not 4th...

I'm still undecided, but I have to pick something. I'm going with the above, it might make it a little harder for black to live there, and therefore, easier for us to make territory while attacking.

I really like the other way of doing teh corrections much better, each mistake costs a few points.

This way, each mistake pushes you nearer the edge of a cliff.

I want to save my three remaining corrections. But this move doesn't help the corner. It doesn't make an invasion much more difficult. It doesn't pressure the capping stone much more than a 4th line stone would. Arghhh. It's slightly better than passing, I think.

I flipped a coin. I'll let it stand.

I'm not sure how Joaz intended for this follow up, but as far as I understand the cap, it makes miai of reducing on either side. I will attach here to make a solid group. I intend this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7 - 0 , W=3 - 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Question for observers: would you have approved that last move?

Younger brother insists on making us heavy. It is too soon for that. This is lighter, and it is an extension off of our wall, and a threat to invade the corner. If they take the corner. there is still an invasion at 'a', and maybe 'b'. And we can play 2 profitably. Then 4 and 6 are possibilities.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . 1 , O . B . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 6 . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The attachment at D9 is still available, as is F6.

Well, that one surprises me. It appears Joaz wishes to make territory from his thickness?

I think that's a really dubious move from Joaz. Making territory from thickness while encouraging us to fix our gaping hole in the upper left.

Maybe Joaz thinks this is forcing and then he'll follow up with G12? I think that's too loose. Of course we are behind enough that it probably won't matter.

E9 and C16 both look good to me.

Difficult move to reply to...Do I treat it as an approach on the corner and protect it, leaving black to develop a moyo, or do I try to hinder the moyo and leave the corner open for invasion?
Let's try going for the moyo.