I'll post more on this later. I'm putting the diagram up now so that our opponents can start thinking.
Author:
TIM82 [ Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:22 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Initial reaction: that's a nice move, seems much better than just A. Answering B below feels submissive, but can (or should) we resist? Wrong or too insistent resistance seems likely to just shut down our possibilities around C and/or give black more thickness with which to threaten our snake in the center. Have to think this carefully.
[go]$$Wcm44 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . a . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . b 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:
Splatted [ Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:51 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
My initial reaction is that simply taking the territory with C9 is not an option since he'll be gaining too much strength next to my weak group. That leaves me with the options of pushing and cutting, or ignoring and doing something about my weak group. The cut would be my preference but I'll have to do some serious reading to decide if it's actually viable. Probably not, since skydyr won't let me connect my stones so I'd be creating another weak group.
[go]$$Wcm38 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 7 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've decided this works. It seems to me that it's very hard for black to keep the D10 and G11 stones seperated while also keeping his D9 stone alive, but if he lets that die my left is strong and profitable.
Author:
Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
The fun variation.
Author:
Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I'll post more on this later...
First, let's note that the exchange of K14 for L15 is bad for black in most continuations. White gets a much more stable position and runs one step closer to the friendly stone at P12. Moving out to 'a' is probably better in that it might threaten both white groups.
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . W . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Second, let's also note that the natural move at E10 provokes the natural reply at D9, and again, this exchange looks better for white in most continuations.
[go]$$Bc The cut at 'a' is much less effective, and W threatens something around 'b' \n and 'c' is starting to become W territory. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b b . O O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . b . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , 4 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Anyway...back to my choice of moves. The previous diagram shows how constricted black's upper corner looks when white gets E10 first. It is the direction of play for both sides, IMHO, and is therefore the most important play on the board.
The second diagram noted that just taking E10 directly looks better for white. D10 does not work much better:
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...and white must be careful because of the black play at 'a'.
Ultimately, I'm not sure that it works. But I know that nothing else does. In other words, it is the only move in the proper direction of play that might work.
Author:
TIM82 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Approved.
I sure have no idea how this will end up, but at least it should be fun. I like little brothes spirit
Some unrefined ideas, which make this seem feasible for us:
[go]$$Wcm38 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've done lots of reading, but I'm not sure how to condense that in to a post since I really don't know which lines to expect. Black's strongest resistance seems to be to connect with F11, but I'm not sure how much damage that actually does to my centre group. It obviously damages the G11 stone, but it doesn't threaten to seal me in. Assuming I do reply to it though, here's one possible continuation:
[go]$$Wcm1 11 at marked white stone $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . 8 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . 9 6 X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 . W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can sacrifice the two stones and build outside influence, which I'm not sure is worth it, but it does seem to activate the cut at a.
Edit:
I've decided I do like this because black's C14 area is still reduceable (and if white gets to play there black looks overconcentrated) and there is some significant aji in his position, so I don't think black gets as much from this trade as it seems he does.
Author:
TIM82 [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Approved. Let the fun begin
although at glance I'm not a fan of Splatted's sacrifice plan. Perhaps 3 at 11 in his diagram? But there are so many options open right now - lets see where this goes.
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . X W 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Taking this side looks interesting except that it seems to damage the H15 group...
More later. Short on time so no comments, just sequences, really.
Author:
Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
For observers:
skydyr wrote:
Still thinking...
I hope his next post will indicate that he is thinking about extending from the D9 stone. This is a crosscut, after all, and the proverb tells us that one should extend from a crosscut. E10 has room to run, and some white attempts to chase it turn out to be aji keshi. But D9 can be laddered if it does not get an extension. I don't know what is best here, but both extensions should be on the short list.
Younger brother seems to be favoring the C12/E12 group a lot. They may be expendable. They are good for territory only if we play D14 in gote. But establishing a group around D7 may be worth more.
EDIT: Actually, there are 3 possible extension from D9. C8 feels bad intuitively, but it might work.
Author:
Splatted [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
bump.
Author:
skydyr [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:02 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Sorry, I've been busy and haven't decided as yet. I'm still thinking about this, though.
Author:
Splatted [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:16 am ]
Post subject:
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
That's fine. I just thought you might have forgotten it was your turn.
The fun variation. 
