Life In 19x19
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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=152
Page 35 of 38

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

BTW, if it makes sense for me to let a move slide rather than give up two points, it is doubly true for Shapenaji, for it costs us four points if he corrects.
I trust younger brotherto see the light real soon.

Author:  shapenaji [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Approved.
as Joaz said, not worth changing

Author:  jts [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X B C X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Rightttttttttttt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm143 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 . 2 X 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 5 6 O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 8 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O 0 X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still suspect these would be better used as ko threats... but I am now a little bit worried, since I'm now reading that we only just win the semeai. Can they start a ko with C19? If so, we're in deep trouble. It may make sense to respond to E19 with J16.
Image

Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Approved.

ShapeNaji didn't think it was worth 4 points to fix this?

We win the race every way I read it. I don't see why squeezing us now would be worth more than the ko threats they're losing.

Author:  Violence [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Approved

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Count liberties...please, god, make him count liberties...

Author:  Chew Terr [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The proper point is either here or one above, I think, and I like this more. Falsifying eyes for fun... and profit? This prevents an eye above or below, keeping it a liberty race between b's big group here and the group we have to the left. We do not have a ton of liberties...

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

I don't approve.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B64
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . C O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In its simplest form, the libertes race looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 5 X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 2 W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 8 O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 4 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O 6 X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

They can tenuki to the big play at 1 at the bottom, and then still come back and win the liberties race. ( There are more complicated variations, but those don't work either. )

Although, in Chew's defense, the dual approvals last move can be misleading.

Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

for obs only:
in my opinion it is sente. there was no need to correct that move..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm143 :b50: = :w45:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 6 . 1 X X 2 X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 4 W O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X 0 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 7 O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 9 X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  shapenaji [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Not Approved
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz is right that the top just wastes threats, but his move on the bottom isn't ambitious enough imo... If we want to use those threats, we have to stretch further

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Huh? Strike...then make fist? :scratch:

Author:  shapenaji [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Force, then consolidate

Author:  jts [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

F7

I tried to read out tactical alternatives to the obvious response, and strategic alternatives to staying connected. Even with D6, they are able to cut us off from the corner, so if we want our groups to stay solidly connected back to a living group, this is very important. If we allow a cut, then we may run into liberty problems with the 10 o'clock center group, and may be forced to make life under disadvantageous conditions in the lower left. The key problem with playing this way is that W can choke off our access to the center. But if W cuts of our center stone, we can then seek compensation in both corners, and may still end up able to make a small living group on the bottom (because it will still be essentially empty). If my previous estimate was correct, W needs to make a huge amount of net territory on the bottom half of the board to win: "large" won't cut it.

Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Approved.

Author:  Violence [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Approved.

Author:  Chew Terr [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm144 Move 143 W68 B65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . W , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My first instinct was something more 'normal', like J4, but I kind of liked the idea of F5. It threatens to make a big wall on one side, or cut and maybe kill on the other. However, I decided that it probably couldn't kill on the left, so it failed. I'm going with the safer move.

Author:  Aphelion [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

My move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm144 Move 143 W68 B65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . W . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

I approve.

I assumed that our general strategy was to take make our two stones into a stable group and take quick teritory on the side. Then any invasion of the side could not manage a two-space extension. So I wanted to play low.
But Shapenaji is suggesting a more central fighting strategy, so a high move seems reasonable.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon May 02, 2011 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Bump.

Shapenaji?

Author:  shapenaji [ Mon May 02, 2011 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Sorry, got busy there for a second.

Approved.
I'd like to move this one, but it's not worth the 4 points to move it to H5

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