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 Post subject: cheater in wbaduk
Post #1 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:55 am 
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today i meet really annoying player with the nick leehusun.
we play 2 times n he won the 1st game.
after that he challange me again n i won the 2nd time by a big margin but he always reject the counting. n then he mark my living group as dead n his dead group as life...
of course i refuse but hey, it keep happening for more than 1 hours...
seems like he want to win so badly he show no manner...
he even refuse to continue playing so i can kill it manually...

do any1 have an idea what sould i do...?

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Post #2 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:46 am 
Honinbo
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f4223n354 wrote:
do any1 have an idea what sould i do...?
Find out how much of your life is worth spending on people like him.


This post by EdLee was liked by 6 people: Bantari, Bonobo, Joaz Banbeck, quietimes, Splatted, topazg
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Post #3 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:33 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Find out how much of your life is worth spending on people like him.

lol, he's not worth my time but my pride refuse to lose agains som1 like him
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
gladly he gave up after more than 2 hours...
hahaha, glad i didn't foolishly wait for him n play in kgs instead...

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Post #4 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:56 am 
Honinbo
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f4223n354 wrote:
it keep happening for more than 1 hours...
f4223n354 wrote:
he gave up after more than 2 hours
f4223n354 wrote:
he's not worth my time
Right.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #5 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:14 am 
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For your own stress management, it's better to take the loss and blacklist the player in question.

Nevermind that they don't deserve the win, it's much better to turn away from such people as fast as possible.

Besides, there's not much value lost in having just one loss too many. You'll recover from it pretty soon.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #6 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:27 am 
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Helel wrote:
Tsuyoku wrote:
Besides, there's not much value lost in having just one loss too many. You'll recover from it pretty soon.


It is not the loss, it's the principle. Should you let people get away with cheating you, only to go on and cheat someone else? Is it rather not your moral obligation to stop them, even if it takes hours, days or years? Otherwise, are you not as guilty as they are? :twisted:


Hmm. 'the principle'. Dangerous substance. Maybe grief for you, grief for others. A world of pain perhaps. Wars are sometimes started on principle, many people die, and the principle may be twisted & forgotten. Not that people listen to Cassandra.

Walk away. ( Or better run, forrest, run ).

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #7 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Helel wrote:
Tsuyoku wrote:
Besides, there's not much value lost in having just one loss too many. You'll recover from it pretty soon.


It is not the loss, it's the principle. Should you let people get away with cheating you, only to go on and cheat someone else? Is it rather not your moral obligation to stop them, even if it takes hours, days or years? Otherwise, are you not as guilty as they are? :twisted:


That doesn't work, though.

You're not changing their behavior at all. If enough people behave the way they want, then the few who don't are irrelevant.

If you could seriously change their bad behavior by refusing to yield for several hours, it would be worth your time. If not, why bother?

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #8 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:37 am 
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yeah, more over when he didn't say a word...
i doubt he'll change his way...

later i found out that lot of ppl doing that in wbaduk...
refuse the marking, mark some lifing group dead, n apply for the counting...
it's kinda sad seeing ppl doing thing like this...

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #9 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Very recently I also have noticed a rash of cheating (albeit still nothing like my experience of Tygem).

Specifically, when your opponent is losing, they will mark one or two dame as "shared seki liberties" to throw off the score and quickly accept it. It can be easy to miss the one little red x on an otherwise normal looking scoring screen.

I fell for it once, it has been tried on me twice more since. Filling dame before scoring would abate this, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #10 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Happened to me twice, once I just resigned the game. I know that I won anyway, so, it is his problem.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #11 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:21 pm 
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f4223n354 wrote:
today i meet really annoying player with the nick leehusun.


This is a little funny, because when I first read it I thought his name or username was Nick Leehusun, and this is what came to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #12 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:09 am 
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aokun wrote:
f4223n354 wrote:
today i meet really annoying player with the nick leehusun.


This is a little funny, because when I first read it I thought his name or username was Nick Leehusun, and this is what came to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson


Cheating in business, cheating in go :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #13 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:09 am 
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I can report that after a year there are still same issues. Looks like we just need to get over it. Even dan players are doing such things there, which I can't understand why...

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #14 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:35 am 
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Seems like a way to resolve this through additional server capability would be to allow each player to mark what they believe is the score and "Submit for arbitration" and whoever marks incorrectly relative to the arbitration to have an indication near their rank or on their profile.

This seems much better than "living with it".

A server could have designated, perhaps volunteer or bartered, trusted arbitrators.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #15 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:59 am 
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There are admins waiting for help in Tygem and wBaduk, but I don't know if they can understand English.

I think they can understand "Help me." or "No manner."

It is 2 AM here in Korea but I still find admins online in both servers.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #16 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:08 pm 
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I was playing via iPad client (no "help" or "report" button) so I tried with a desktop client but no admins were available :(... Even though, I need to admit that it is not a common behaviour, and I still enjoy playing on WBaduk.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #17 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:20 am 
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Abandon the game. It hurts but I find that abandoned games actually make me a stronger player in the long run because they teach indifference to one's rank.

Indifference to one's rank is worth two stones.

(Aha - the perfect irony.)

Incidentally, IGS has a good judgement-by-office system. It works, it's quick (two days, in my experience) and it's free.


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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #18 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:41 pm 
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My friend recently told me that he plays on WBaduk, so I installed it and tried out a game.

This incident of cheating happened my first game. I couldn't believe that they would have this kind of bug on such an apparently large server. Unless it's with my friends, I won't be playing another game on this client until it's fixed. However, I don't have high hopes considering how old this thread is.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #19 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:08 pm 
Oza
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Some people have been reporting it on the web site. I had it happen once and was able to get an admin to fix it, but they don't have any English speaking admin as far as I know. It would probably help if the 'call admin' button actually worked there.

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 Post subject: Re: cheater in wbaduk
Post #20 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 pm 
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This common circumstance which happens on both WBaduk and Tygem is really a misunderstanding of Korean rules, which require a period of alternation before ending the game, though in practice is it customary only in online play. The sequence is as follows:

1. The player who is ahead, whom we shall call the "ScoreMaster" may choose to request to score the game before the dame are filled as long as there are fewer than 10 dame to be filled there is an even number of open kos.

2. The other player, whom we shall call the "ScoreLoser" will reject the counting.

3. Steps 1&2 may be repeated up to 4 times before prcoceeding to step 4.

4. Play resumes until dame open kos and dame are filled.

5. The new "ScoreMaster" (as this may be different than the "ScoreMaster" in step 1) will then request counting.

6. The "Score Loser" will then optionally:

6. a. Reject counting

6. b. Mark opponent's groups dead or alive based upon the number of stones in the opponents group modulo the floor of the sidereal time.

7. The "ScoreWinner" will attempt to remark groups according to conventional judgment of life and death.

8. Steps 6 and 7 will alternate an arbitrary number of times.

9. At any point at the "ScoreWinner"'s turn the "ScoreWinner" may opt to:

9. a. Resign

9. b. Disconnect

It is unfortunate that all players have not been educated in this convention and play by rules which they do not understand. The failure to do so can result in a destabilization of the rating system, which, when all players follow the above rules, has the desirable effect of allowing even games between players of a wide variety of strengths.

The system is, IMHO, unnecessarily complicated. Other servers manage to achieve the same result via use of a simplified pairing scheme called a "free game."


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