It is currently Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:13 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » Rengo Games

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 17 of 18
  [ 357 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #321 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:17 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
@black
Sounds good.

_________________
be immersed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline TegaiS
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #322 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:38 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 153
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 18
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #323 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:55 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
FYI, I will be heading to Korea this weekend, and won't have the same Internet access as usual. I'll return on February 10th, the same day that I turn two to the fifth years old. I entrust my voting during this two and a half week period to my beloved teammates, Joaz and TegaiS.

I expect a 20 point lead by the time I get back.

_________________
be immersed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #324 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:47 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
@obs (and possibly players too as I discuss a long-gone situation over a dozen moves ago).

I only just discovered this game, and wondered how white got into such an ugly shape (black is leading considerably from this fight). White's 3-3 in this corner seems fair enough and fighting spirit (even though he doesn't have the ladder so has to play bad shape kosumi push into rather than cut across waist of knight's move next), but the g16 cut turned out very badly due to black's strong move at h17. If k16 was one line closer then that cut would have been ok as h17 wouldn't work. As it was I think white had to make the other cut. emeraldemon even suggested the good continuation below:

emeraldemon wrote:
@white
I'm curious: could we start by attacking the top stones and wait to see the best play on the left?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X 2 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



But no one addressed this and it seems they went with andreyl's suggestion of the other cut, but he hadn't envisaged black's strong continuations after h17. I think :w26: here is the key move, after the extension of 24 white makes miai of surrounding and attacking one of black's cut groups. White should not feel obliged to answer on the left side: if black were to play a move like a white simply thumbs his nose and plays b for a trade (and the left side is still far from black territory). If black answers white 6 on the top white will get stronger and then and continue on the left.

skydyr posted this sequence which I think shows faulty strategy of answering your opponent's move too much and not following up on the miai threat of surrounding one of the cut groups:

skydyr wrote:
@white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W 7 9 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . a 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought white's stones would all be working decently after this. None of black's groups are alive and white's stones are all working.


Note how the marked white stone and 6 have created a narrow gap through which black is forced to run, damaging white on both sides (need to defend cut at a now). I suppose one could say white aims to play b here and force black out, but I feel white is too busy like that and should play more solidly. Here's another way to think of it: at move 25 below it is black's move, but imagine he passed then white's would love to play as shown to surround and possibly kill black. So white has a very good move that black needs to avoid.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Powerful threat black must avoid
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But now let's consider a similar situation after skydyr's sequence. It is now black to move after 30, but what is white's threat if black were to pass? White ''a'' is possibly it, making a loose surround of the black group. But it has a lot more eyespace on the left side. So I think of this sequence as black in sente reducing the severity of white's threat. Giving your opponent gain in sente is to be avoided. It's fine for him to make gain in gote because then you get something too, but gain in sente means he got something for nothing. Now it's not quite so simple here because white's 28-30 stones aren't nothing and weaken black's stones in the lower left, though they could also be weak themselves in the fight if black doesn't pass as in this thought experiment. But this idea of not giving your opponent something (less severe attack on left group) in sente is why I want to play 26 as emeraldemon's move of surrounding the top group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W 7 9 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 8 . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Uberdude on Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #325 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:51 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Kirby wrote:
I'll return on February 10th, the same day that I turn two to the fifth years old.
So you will be 11 days old in 19 days? Can I borrow your time machine?

This post by Uberdude was liked by: Kirby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #326 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:21 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Kirby wrote:
FYI, I will be heading to Korea this weekend, and won't have the same Internet access as usual. I'll return on February 10th, the same day that I turn two to the fifth years old.


Have a great trip, and don't play too much baduk. :D

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Kirby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Schachus
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #327 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:27 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 211
Liked others: 16
Was liked: 62
Rank: KGS 1k EGF 2k
KGS: Schachus12
Uberdude wrote:
Kirby wrote:
I'll return on February 10th, the same day that I turn two to the fifth years old.
So you will be 11 days old in 19 days? Can I borrow your time machine?


Either I dont get your point, or you got the maths wrong. 2^(1/5)!= 2^(-5)= 1/32

This post by Schachus was liked by: Kirby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #328 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:56 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Woops, how embarrassing!
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #329 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:05 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Uberdude wrote:
Woops, how embarrassing!


But you probably are correct that white should have made the other cut.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #330 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:30 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Kirby wrote:
FYI, I will be heading to Korea...


Enjoy your trip.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: Kirby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #331 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:09 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Schachus wrote:
Either I dont get your point, or you got the maths wrong. 2^(1/5)!= 2^(-5)= 1/32


2^(1/5) != "two to the fifth"; 2^(1/5) is "two to the one-fifth". "two to the fifth" is 2^5 = 32.

But anyway, nice joke.

Thanks for all of the kind messages, and see you all in about two to the thirty-six twenty-fifths* weeks!

*
"two to the thirty-six twenty-fifths weeks" => 2^(36/25) weeks => 2.7132 weeks => 2 weeks and 4.9924 days => February 10th @ around 3pm Pacific time.

_________________
be immersed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #332 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:10 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Just in case you guys missed it in all the other chatter, we moved :b1: as shown in the diagram below.
Moves :w2: and :b3: are a trigger.

TegaiS wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #333 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:42 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
@white
I thought I posted but I guess I forgot to submit. Seems like we should probably either extend again or jump to a? I don't think we can ignore the atari.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #334 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:18 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
emeraldemon wrote:
@white
I thought I posted but I guess I forgot to submit. Seems like we should probably either extend again or jump to a? I don't think we can ignore the atari.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@white
:w4: in that diagram still feels painful, and I think we need to fight back more strongly.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I still want to play something like this move to start driving black, as I think we are strong enough now.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #335 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:49 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
@white
Might as well try it. I agree that just extending again is painful.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #336 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:58 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
@obs
Not extending means black hane there is painful and you can't tenuki or fall for this snapback:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X 4 3 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 5 O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the tenuki is this 2 then that sequence is avoided, but white's shape is still dire. White might make the a-b exchange to help a bit, but black's top grows nicely. I think white needs to extend at 1.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline andreyl
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #337 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:06 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 51
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 1
KGS: 2d
Tygem: 6d
@white
I prefer to extend,the hane looks too good for black.
overally the situation is not easy for white,our middle group is not doing much and our prime aim should be to stabilize it and then settle the left side
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #338 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:21 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
@white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can we answer the hane this way?
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #339 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:27 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
emeraldemon wrote:
@white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can we answer the hane this way?

That looks reasonable, but I'd want to consider ignoring it to put pressure on black's left-side group too. I worry if we don't try to play actively, we'll consolidate black's local advantage.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #340 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:59 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
white
I am afraid if we tennuki black can cut and the fight will be bad for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 8 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But we could play a move like this to protect the cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 17 of 18
  [ 357 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » Rengo Games

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group