84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)

SpongeBob · **#121**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Joaz Banbeck · **#122**

SpongeBob wrote:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

White is behind by at least 20 points. He must either make lots of territory on the remaining board while black makes very little, or he must reduce/invade black's territory. The former prospect is not good: there are roughly equal opportunities for white up north and for black in the east. Getting 20+ points difference is very difficult under these circumstances.
Unlike the territory-making option in which the chances are roughly equal, the latter prospect of reducing/invading is more suited to white's situation. White's territory is rather solid. Black's has some gaps in it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . B . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 4 X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . W 3 2 O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . 5 X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . B . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . W . 1 O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 2 . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#123**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Dusk Eagle · **#124**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move #75 B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . B . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I just realized something amazing.

Until this point, I had been looking at my move leading to the following sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . 6 X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 1 4 O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 2 3 O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But, I think this just might work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X X O . . X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 1 . O X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 X O . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It would explain why there's so much talking... :mrgreen:

Anyway, I'm doing it. Hopefully I'm not missing something obvious.

Laman · **#125**

Laman · **#126**

i resign. thank you for the game. you were too good for me. now let's read the hidden comments

Dusk Eagle · **#127**

Good game Laman. I think you've let your fears in on you a bit though - I really don't feel like I was outplaying you throughout. For me at least, in long games like these, when you can't determine what is best, it leads to the feeling that your opponent is outplaying you, always knowing what is best, when in reality they don't know any more than you do.

Anyway, I just read the comments, and they were all quite interesting. I'll have to think about some of them though. For instance, I thought my one-space jump on the bottom was a good move for trying to force white into forming a weak group, but Magicwand was especially critical of that move, so I'll have to reconsider my thinking there.

Well, it was fun. Have a good day!

Joaz Banbeck · **#128**

Thanks to both of you. It was fun and enlightening to watch.

Bill Spight · **#129**

Dusk Eagle wrote:

Anyway, I just read the comments, and they were all quite interesting. I'll have to think about some of them though. For instance, I thought my one-space jump on the bottom was a good move for trying to force white into forming a weak group, but Magicwand was especially critical of that move, so I'll have to reconsider my thinking there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . a . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looking just at the bottom side, I cannot be very critical of the jump. No play looks particularly good. The jump feels too close to the secure White corner, while an extension to "a" feels too close to the Black wall. And, thanks to :wc:

, Black will have an open skirt either way. (Perhaps Black's approach would have been better at E-02 instead of F-03.)

But looking at the whole board, isn't the right side the place to play instead? At :b1:

, for instance?

Shaddy · **#130**

FWIW, I'd play the jump without thinking in that situation. If I had to pick another move, though, I'd play H4. A two-space extension feels too low and too close to the incredible thickness on the right.

Dusk Eagle · **#131**

If anyone is still looking I have one more question. Where would you play in this situation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . b , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played 'a', but Magicwand suggested 'b'. Does anyone else have an opinion on this position?

Magicwand · **#132**

Dusk Eagle wrote:

If anyone is still looking I have one more question. Where would you play in this situation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . b , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played 'a', but Magicwand suggested 'b'. Does anyone else have an opinion on this position?

i would never suggest 'b' above.
i said 'b' below. your jump is weak leaving bad aji.
when you are ahead you need to play solid game without giving your opponent a chance to comeback.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Dusk Eagle · **#133**

On this post, you said,

Quote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if he wants to play there ...marked stone is correct.
what he played is full of bad aji and weak.
i am thinking "a" is a correct move though.

Did you mean something else?

gowan · **#134**

Dusk Eagle wrote:

On this post, you said,

Quote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if he wants to play there ...marked stone is correct.
what he played is full of bad aji and weak.
i am thinking "a" is a correct move though.

Did you mean something else?

Black's move at BB is the best in this area. It is a junction area between two moyos so moves here are big for both sides. The problem with your move at A in the next diagram:

[quote]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . A . . . . . | $$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . B . . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is that when the timing is right White can play at B and start a fight here which would cut off the A stone and possibly ruin Black's moyo.

I don't like your idea of a move at a because it is too small scale. Also, because Black's bottom side position is open at the left, the move at a suffers from being an attempt to make territory of an area that is open at the edge, a common mistake. Because of this open-at-the-edge problem I think Black should aim to make his territory higher, toward the center. The move at B helps that and Black might also aim at playing around C to broaden his moyo into the center.

Magicwand · **#135**

i must have misprinted 'a' in my previous diag.
sorry for the confusion.

84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)

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