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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #101 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:57 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O C 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O C C O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Having taken both the points I was worried about White taking, I'll use this moment to start pushing the boundaries of what Black may be able to get away with. There are a few points on the left and the lower right that interest me, but this area feels big. I'm also trying to work out exactly how big J17 is.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #102 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O 8 . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O C 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O C C O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #103 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:31 pm 
Judan
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@observers:
I might have played this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I can't say for sure that it is better, but M17 is just too submissive.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #104 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:57 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O 8 . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . 9 . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O C 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O C C O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


One of the bigger considerations about J17 was whether or not White could afford to split last move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . 0 . . O 9 . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O C 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O C C O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


It's really rather ugly for White, and I'm not convinced it's playable, but not only would J17 have prevented it, it would also be mutually worth points, and give extra possibilities to the move at M16.

Sadly, it was also completely gote, and would likely encourage White to walk out towards the centre (L15 perhaps), so I decided the direction I'm playing in game is going to be bigger ... we'll just have to let that last top point resolve itself later at some stage.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #105 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O 8 . O 0 . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . 7 . 9 . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O C 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O C C O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The wedge would be the normal move here, but That really makes black's center stronger. I count myself as around 10 points behind if Black doesn't make much in the center. This way, Black might ignore my move leaving bad aji for later. It may even let me invade deeper into his territory.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #106 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:08 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O 1 O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This wedge is very gote, but it's very thick as well, so I'll take it for now. The game isn't really in a good position for a final count, but I'm feeling reasonably positive.

If anyone has any questions, ask away :)
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #107 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:20 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O 1 O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #108 Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:01 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O 1 O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X 3 X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #109 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:13 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Looking for a way to block the center while reducing Black's moyo in an active way.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #110 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
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Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Mmmm, interesting. This feels like White overplay - I'm hoping I either get a target, or a wall that naturally neutralises his ability to make points in the middle, but we'll see
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #111 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:05 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X 6 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Blacks Hane looks severe, but I think it is much better for W than simply backing off with
"a". The resulting cutting points give me some forcing moves that might make a decent sized territory in the center for me, or maybe a trade where Black destroys my center, but I destroy his big right side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X a . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #112 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:34 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X 6 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . 7 X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This was the majority of my reading I did on the hane ... I did wonder about just extending to M10, but all the reading I did after White cuts here seemed to be pretty good for Black, so I guess "bring it on"?


Addition:

This I thought was the most exciting looking line:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm97 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 4 X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . 6 3 1 X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . 7 . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline bayu
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #113 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X 1 X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


According to the 1-2-3-principle: isn't it better to play here than to wedge? The wedge takes away a liberty and is a waste of a ko threat.

_________________
If something sank it might be a treasure. And 2kyu advice is not necessarily Dan repertoire..
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #114 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:34 pm 
Lives in gote

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Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 8 X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a 3 X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 1 X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . 2 X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think this will be a success. In any case it is better for W than simply surrounding at "a" or reducing around "b", though ti does solidify B's territory as well.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #115 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:05 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 8 X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . 9 X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #116 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:28 pm 
Lives in gote

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Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 0 X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 8 X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . 9 X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #117 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:08 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #118 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:32 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Liked others: 4
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Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


considering our lack of comments in the last few moves, it looks like we both planned this exchange and both consider it playable. Considering that topazg is stronger than me, maybe I am making a mistake?
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #119 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:34 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Interesting, I didn't really expect him to push too much just in case there was something left of the aji of the stones inside my shiny new territory, but I guess this makes sense for him too, it makes some of my ideas rather tricksy to pull off.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #120 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:50 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :b3: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . , . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X O . . O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Third times the charm.
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