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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #101 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:05 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't afford to lose all 3 stones I think, so I have to respond here. The question, naturally, is whether the whole thing dies ... but, let's hope not eh?

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #102 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:04 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
E10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
his answer seems wrong. even if he answer and try to save his stones he still need to place another stone to save them. it is small.
below was good enough for black erasing my influence and making my peep a bad move and looking to cut my weakness at "a".
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . a O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #103 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:16 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . 2 7 . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It shouldn't be too hard to make an eye now in the middle, and another below these stones - that's the theory. Either way, I've exchanged a whole bunch of points for a) not dying, and b) creating a situation where White can't create a huge number of points in the middle. Is it enough for White with that size loss though? No idea.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #104 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
G10

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #105 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:30 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 . 8 9 . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . 2 7 . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unexpected response. I thought he'd play the atari simply so he could hane here. It's not particularly aji keshi as he can't cut off those two stones anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #106 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:40 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
G11

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #107 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:21 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This should be sente hopefully .. if so, I can try to abuse the aji of the bottom middle two stones.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #108 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:55 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



i dont like way this is going...

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #109 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:28 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Loads of comments to catch up on tomorrow, I promise :)

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #110 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:51 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #111 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:13 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Threatening to capture:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X 8 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O 7 O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hard to resist without still being forced:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 9 X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . O a . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . 7 5 . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 6 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 2 O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 3 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]Not sure if I want this :b93: or to play at "a", depends on how sente it is really. More reading if we get there.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #112 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:21 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
More background for observers:

Moves 41-51:



Move 53:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . a X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Following on from the previous explanations, this move was intended to milk the fact that magicwand decided to kill me in the lower left. As part of the point of F2 was to get out through the middle and neutralise the lower side, I figured it would make sense to either get a good stable group down here and threaten White's bottom/right stones, or to get an extra forcing move as some kind of kikashi before living in the lower left anyway.

I kind of hoped magicwand would respond here to try and keep these Black stones weak, but it may have been better for him to play :w54: at "a" and secure the corner?


Move 55:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O 4 . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . a . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I get my response, so now living in the corner seems like a nice enough idea, as there's lots of aji sitting on those lower side stones. I really wanted to be able to get in "a", but if I played it as either :b53: or :b55: White would take "a" and the peep would serve no real purpose. However, White seems to be able to fix his shape very nicely which ... I didn't really want. Nevertheless, part of the goal here was to make life in the corner sente, and that's beginning to look likely.


Move 57:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . 7 X . . O . 6 a X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w56: is a nice obvious response, forcing :b57:, but the aji of connecting at "a" felt large enough that I figured White would feel the need to play there for :w58: .... little did I know!


Move 59:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . d . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . 8 a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O b X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . e c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the first point where I started really worrying. Suddenly, White seizes the initiative when I was supposed to be getting it back :(

I had wanted to play at :w58: next (or maybe "a") after White played at "b", but I completely missed this resistance. In many ways, it makes complete sense. It starts to enlarge White's moyo, puts Black's group under some serious pressure, and makes a move around "b" inefficient compared to a move around "c" which should achieve both goals at once. I need to find a way to regain control of the next 15-20 moves or I'm in trouble I think, as all of White's stones exert influence over the middle. My real concern is White getting moves at "c" and "d" and, due to the weakness of this Black group, leaving me unable to invade comfortably.

Having said all that, it's not all doom and gloom. The ability to get "e" in sente due to the threat of connecting the two lower side stones is still good ... provided I get there first - "c" and "e" have become really urgent.


Move 61:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wasn't sure if I'd get a response here, but the followups seeed fairly large so I thought I'd take the risk. The debate between this and the 3-3 was fairly easy as this was semi-sente (and the followup is big if gote), whereas the 3-3 invasion is completely gote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 3 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The remaining moves on the board are far too large for me to be comfortable giving White sente right now, due to the moyo-growing reasons mentioned in the previous move. So, I hoped to make a few sente exchanges, and then fix up the remaining groups (at the top right, on the left side, and then count).


For beginners:

Sente and Gote

When evaluating sequences, never underestimate the importance of whether the sequence ends in sente or not. The value of "getting the next move" obviously depends on the rest of the board, but even if there's no glowingly brilliant points left, having control of the flow of the game is such an important factor, as it means you get to call the shots on where and in what direction the board develops. A common example where sente normally outweighs the slightly more valuable sequence that ends in gote is as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 4 . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this standard sort of edge position, the monkey jump is often inferior to a simple knight's move, due to the latter being sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 2 . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black omits :b2: , moves around "a" are huge followups, so it's normal for Black to respond here, the difference being that White gets the next move, not Black.


Move 63:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hurray, I get :w63: before White gets in with "a". I reduce White, help alleviate some of the bad aji in my corner, and keep sente! I was feeling more comfortable now, the game should be at least even I think.


Move 65:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


viewtopic.php?p=117959#p117959


Move 67:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At the time I was really pleased to get this move in. It's certainly not small, as it mostly completes my thickness, removes the aji of this horrible sequence from White:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm68 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . a . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O 7 X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 3 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O 2 1 O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . 4 6 X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's a good 8-10 points right there, and White now has all the endgame along the top edge as I can't really afford what to hane and jump underneath with "a"-"b", making it White's privelege to play the yose in sente.

Not only is this sequence prevented, but I also get the following useful endgame on the top edge:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . a 3 4 O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X 5 O 6 X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even leaving "a" for later, the top actually starts to become points now as well as having outside thickness.

Having said all this, and even though I still feel this move was fairly urgent to play, the group on the left was more urgent, and I should I think have played on that side first.


Move 69:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . B O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At the time, this just felt really a bit insipid of White. I had completely missed the following :w70: so I played simply here. Creating shape to make the most of either remaining cuts, and preparing to make use of the aji of the marked Black stone, having just made use of it's neighbour with the bottom exchange.


Move 71:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X a X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . c b . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . W . . d . . . x . . x O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . x . . . x . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Suddenly, the control of the game is in White's hands. At first glance, I though this was just slow endgame, until suddenly I realised the "a"-"b"-"c" cut now works for White, the "d" peep is dangerous, and worst of all, Black has no obvious eyes _anywhere_. As is my wont, I've managed to leave a group weak enough that it can be attacked - not only that, but the rest of the board is just screaming for a White attack that lets him convert the "x" area into White territory. The only move I felt I could play here was :b71:, trying to settle the majority of my group and prevent White from building up too many points on the lower side.

It's funny how psychological the game of Go is. Only a few moves ago I was confident that the game was at least even, with Black possibly even having a slight edge. In such a short space of time, I now am wondering how long I can hold on before the inevitable group dies somewhere :)


More to follow...

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #113 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:52 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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KGS: topazg
Move 73:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . b . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 a . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was a really hard choice for me to make. It's the obvious response, but sometimes a move like this just ends up making the group heavier. First, I assessed the "escape" side at "a":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O b 7 5 8 . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 3 . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X 4 X x . . x . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . 6 . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . x . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Firstly, Black's shape is horrible. Secondly, the cut at :w78: is so large with respect to the potential around "x" that even if Black lives, it feels likely that Black will lose the game. I can't defend with :b77: @ "a" because :w78: @ "b" cuts the group in two. All in all, a very unsatisfactory option.

All the reading around the other option ("b" in the original diagram) ended up similarly, and everything seems to swing around that :w74: (second diagram) being key. I revised my reading later as I can Block with :b75: @ :w74: in the second diagram which helps with liberties, but White still gets to cut on that side, and it still feels too nasty for Black. So the only really remaining option was to block solidly. My concern was whether the following sorts of moves build up strong enough attacks to kill the group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 6 , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 5 . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 X . 4 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It all looks a bit reckless, but I can't read it, and if it works, it hurts.


Moves 75-77:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . O 7 . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . a . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b75: seemed forced, else "a" cuts everything on the left off for a lot of points. If I'm going to consider that big enough to respond to very soon, I may as well play it directly - the push doesn't create me too many liberty problems.

:w76: surprised me slightly, it seemed slack. I had expected the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 0 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 X . O 6 8 a . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X X X 7 9 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like this is basically forced, and I suspect White can push at "a" etc before cutting (although, the value of hane-ing around Black's line is less the further it goes, so perhaps carrying on too far isn't so good). Now White has a good chance for points, Black still doesn't have two eyes, and the game starts to feel a bit grim to me.

However, White let me take what I considered to be the key point, and my group starts to feel a little happier.


Move 79:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . 8 9 . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


An absolute no brainer for me here. Not only does it start almost completely securing my group, but the hane at "a" wrecks White's central potential and starts to again threaten that lovely cut at "b" :)

I actually suspected White to lose some of his aji and play the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . 4 5 , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 2 O 1 . 7 . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 3 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems to be sente for White, fix his points, and Black's not completely settled (although now shouldn't have any problems at all). The atari at :w78: is a bit annoying to play, but the result seems to be worth it to me, and sente is certainly nice to have right now.


Move 81:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . W 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Suddenly I'm happy. The group is settled, I should get sente again otherwise the hane comes with real risks, and the whole game starts to feel like it's shifting in my favour. I think I got off very lightly in the last 10 moves, but I'm not going to be complaining too much. If he responds, I'm planning on:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O b . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 4 . 5 b . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . W 1 a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut at "a" doesn't work, nor does the push and cut at "b" - if I can get this position, I think Black has great chances.


Move 83:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . c O . 2 a . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Naturally, magicwand resists with :w82: - he's a true protaganist about maintaining the initiative and controlling the flow of the game. I found this really hard to respond to. If I take the natural response at "a" and let him hane at "b", I'm worried he's just got a useful forcing move against me, and I'm not entirely sure whether the game is looking good enough for me to allow any passivity yet.

So, instead, I counter-attack. Aiming both at the hane into his potential, and that cut at "c".


Move 85:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X b c . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . a X d X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 x . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure how dangerous White's last move is. It makes a lot of sense as an assertive way of fixing the cut, but I'm surprised White didn't just play "x" and try to call my last move unreasonable - if he really can't, then I think he's getting into a bit of trouble.

I needed to do some reading around White followups playing any of "a" through to "d", but I can't see anything fatal - I may have to make some territorial concessions, but I think the benefits gained from getting in here are big enough to allow for that.

So, I'm carrying on with the hane - as I said, it threatens the capture of White's three stones, and depending on how it continues, I may get a cut threat back again. When the dust settles, I really will count, I promise :P

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #114 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:25 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
F9 Atari.
I hate losing Ali but senate is what I need

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #115 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:49 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 6 O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 7 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No comments needed... Let's see whether he cuts off that stone or goes for something big on the top ..

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #116 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:15 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 193
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Liked others: 76
Was liked: 29
Rank: 2d EGF and KGS
GD Posts: 1005
Universal go server handle: sverre
Can White really take sente here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X O O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #117 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:52 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 8 X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 6 O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 7 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #118 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:47 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 9 . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 8 X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 6 O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 7 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to pull back here, but that's ok, I don't think he can actually kill anything at the top.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #119 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:01 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 9 . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 8 X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 2 . . . 0 X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X 6 O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X 7 X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I bet that he didnt expect that move.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #120 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:31 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . 1 O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O X . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X O O X . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nearly at 100 moves :)

Are people still watching? Any questions?


This post by topazg was liked by: Bonobo
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