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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #101 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:04 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . W X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
he has weakpoint at 'a' to worry about...
'b' would be my sente when i get to it.... but i dont think it is time yet.
'c' would be big later after i get my influence in the middle because that big dragon will have no eye.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . W X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . X . . . . b X . . . |
$$ | . . . X a . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O c . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

lesson: Probe is necessary for you to get strong but it is very dangerous when you do it wrong.
always think about how your opponent might answer before you probe..

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #102 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:08 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . B X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If there is a trap, I still don't see it. It is touch and go in some lines, but I always come out ok.
The B3-B4 exchange seems to make it simpler for me. Either he protects with B2 in gote, or I have a spare eye with B2 just when I need it. And I may, because he can split me.
But if he does split me, either his corner dies, or my F stones connect to K12 and his cutting stones are eyeless.

A word or two about goals:

In the short term, my goal is to invade as far as I can without getting hurt for it.

Medium range goal is either to connect D15 and K12 something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . B . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or if he persist in pushing through, my goal is to make both left and right side groups safe, somethinng like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X B . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . W . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . X O O O O . O B . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #103 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:17 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | W O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #104 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:34 pm 
Judan
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This is three moves in a row in which I am totally befuddled by my opponent's moves. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:


It is tax time ( 31 days past the end of the year ) so I am going to be distracted for a few days calculating how much of my - and my employees' - hard earned money has to be given to various government agencies.
I'll post here again on February 1st or 2nd.

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Post #105 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:07 pm 
Honinbo
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Magicwand wrote:
I have no idea what my opponent is thinking.
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
This is three moves in a row in which I am totally befuddled by my opponent's moves. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
Pretty funny. :)

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #106 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:39 pm 
Lives in sente

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
This is three moves in a row in which I am totally befuddled by my opponent's moves. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

For the third Joaz-befuddling move, I'm guessing Magicwand played it to give the corner slightly better eyeshape. Let's ignore the cutting potential at E15, giving black an extra stone there.

If white plays the usual connection then black's block is sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Sente
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O . O 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . B . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


Because if white ignores, he dies:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Dead
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 O O . O X 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


Whereas if white plays as in the game, he can ignore B2 and still have the corner survive.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Not sente
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


Because black has to stop W4 from escaping, so white can make enough eyeshape to live:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black can't kill
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 3 1 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . O X 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O 6 X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


If black instead preempts W4, white lives with a standard 1-1 throw-in and squeeze.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black can't kill
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 4 1 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


Note that although white can live, doing so crucially depends on the ability to connect out to his other stones. If black insists, he can keep white to 1 eye locally, so white must survive by connecting out:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 White lives by escaping
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 3 1 . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . O X 8 0 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O 7 X 9 . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . .[/go]


This last point means that if white ignores black's block at F18, any subsequent move by black in the top area is sente against the corner, because it would prevent the above connection sequence. So black's block might still be pretty strong because of the bad aji left for white, and I'm a bit unsure how to value it against the loss of two points endgame on the left from descending at A17 instead of connecting. But overall, white's move seems plausible to me.


This post by lightvector was liked by 2 people: illluck, thirdfogie
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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #107 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:17 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll post analysis later.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #108 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:57 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . W . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
something like below is probably correct move for white... but i still need to play catch up and below is not good enough...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #109 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:16 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Must keep my head out.
BTW, that is now 4 moves in a row that I don't understand. At first glance it looks like a broken shape.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #110 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:40 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
K4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . W . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If i can get sente here then i will be ok. That will be big IF.

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


Last edited by Magicwand on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #111 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:41 am 
Judan

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KGS: Uberdude 4d
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Yeah that broken shape looks bad for W. He aims at p3, but with o5 as black's sente even that is not so easy.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #112 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:20 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
some comment on opponent's move
His move leaves bad aji.
if i was Joaz i would have connected solid as below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X B . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . C . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #113 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
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GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I made a video for my comments, but it keeps hogging too much of the server when I try to upload it, so I will try uploading tonight.

EDIT: 11:00PM California time, video still will not load...I'll make several smaller ones.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #114 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:49 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
F4
sorry ..i thought i posted move and comment...guess i didnt push submit.. :(
i will rewrite my comment later

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . W . . . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #115 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:40 pm 
Judan
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I've got to give MW credit where credit is due: he is very good at maintaining sente. :bow:

If this were a casual game, I'd slam a stone down at H4 without looking twice, and let the devil take the hindmost. But Ishida said that D6 is the play 90+% of the time.

I must take some time to look at this. We are currently on vacation in BC, Canada, so it may be a few days.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #116 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:00 pm 
Lives with ko

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I've got to give MW credit where credit is due: he is very good at maintaining sente. :bow:

If this were a casual game, I'd slam a stone down at H4 without looking twice, and let the devil take the hindmost. But Ishida said that D6 is the play 90+% of the time.

I must take some time to look at this. We are currently on vacation in BC, Canada, so it may be a few days.


To Joaz:
Let me know if you come near Vernon. I have the bare-bones start of a Go club at the library on Sundays and would love a lesson. :mrgreen:


Last edited by Phoenix on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #117 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:23 pm 
Judan
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For observers:
It looks like I'm not going to be able to upload video anytime soon. So I'm going to catch up on comments the old fashioned way. Let's go back a few moves, where it was white to play in this position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point, I think that white made a mistake by playing at 'a'. There are two reasons for that opinion.
1) The important part of the board is around the shaded area, and it is soon going to switch to the lower part of the board. Playing in the corner is worth a few points, but it is out in the boondocks right now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O ? ? ? . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . a X O . X ? ? . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O ? . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X ? ? ? O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? ? O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . ? ? ? ? . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . ? ? ? ? X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


2) White has two problems: his upper territory is about to be invaded, and his upper left corner is in danger. By playing in the corner, he only solves one of those problems.
But this would solve both:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It looks thin, but to the best of my calculations, it holds:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 4 1 6 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X 2 3 . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O 9 . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 8 O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


-------------------------------------------------------------

However, I'l grant MW one thing: B17 - followed by my B16 and his B18 - does improve his position enough so that he has a threat that he did not have before.
The weak point on black's upper left stones is, of course, the play at 1:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |[/go]

But prior to B17, it does not work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 3 X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |[/go]

...and black win the liberties race, 4 to 3:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O 5 O 0 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 3 X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 6 . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 9 . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Once he plays in the corner, the cut works, for I would be behind on the liberties race. So I must cover the cutting point. Any of the points marked 'a' work also. But I chose the point marked with the squared stone, for there is another issue at hand.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X a . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X a a . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . # . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B O O O O . O b . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B B B B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . B . , B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white ever gets to play 'b', the group of circled stone has to seek life in the middle. The squared stone is not quite close enough for a direct connection, but it does ensure that if white pushes through, I can cut his stones off:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X a . X O . 3 X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X a a . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . # 4 . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . 2 . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B O O O O . O b . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B B B B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . B . , B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...thus leaving his cutting stones far from friends and short on liberties compared to my circled stones.



EDIT: Thanks, Kirby. I hid them.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #118 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:25 pm 
Honinbo

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Did you want to show that comment? Maybe you did, but let's double check...

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #119 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:49 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
For observers:
Uh-oh. I may have a mistake in my analysis.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X a . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X a a . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . # 4 . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 5 2 3 X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B O O O O . O b . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B B B B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . B . , B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White can push through. :sad: I may have to re-think a few things.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #120 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:02 am 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . B . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

May the devil take the hindmost. :rambo:

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