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#171 Hyperpape vs. illluck http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6160 |
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Author: | hyperpape [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
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Author: | illluck [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
I don't think I have a choice but to cut white off here. |
Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
As per the last post. |
Author: | illluck [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Tough to decide between this hane and the cut, but with the cut if white plays atari as below I don't seem to have a good answer (if I play a then white takes at b and there's no way to kill white inside, if I play b then white breaks through and it's not clear I have enough in the middle). This way is a bit more dangerous (my lower group may get cut off) but it's more complicated and more oriented towards the centre.
p.s. Would appreciate any input regarding the previous moves or the current situation. Feel free to ask questions or request clarification as well |
Author: | illluck [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
A brief comment about move 39 now that I'm looking over the game again: I'm no longer sure why I played it instead of the second-line extend now - I can't seem to find anything that looks particularly bad after the extend and the game move was so costly in terms of both points and group stability XD |
Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Someone is wrong about something. I hope it's my opponent. |
Author: | jts [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
@hyperpape What are we going to see if you're right? |
Author: | illluck [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Not playing the other atari because white will connect and no way to seal. |
Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
@jts
Whether he has to play is the key point. I don't actually think Black can get anywhere cutting, so in a sense, I should be hoping for that. After the sequence I've shown, I think White is still fine, so I don't really think Black should play it. So I don't really know what I'm hoping for or expecting. I guess it's more of a "I hope I'm not missing something feeling. On second thought, I think I was missing something, at a. |
Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
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Author: | illluck [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
To be honest the situation is outside of my reading ability, so I can't really justify my choice versus alternatives (the rough idea is that I don't like the counteratari if I play an atari, but that may in fact be a better result than this more aggressive connect). I hope to cut white off without leaving too much eyeshape by threatening white's corner, but the corner is quite strong because it has the ability to capture the second line stone and so I'm not sure what will happen XD |
Author: | hyperpape [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
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Author: | hyperpape [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
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Author: | illluck [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
I think this is the only reasonable move. I did consider also the push below, but that feels slightly aji-keshi. I think now I'll probably have to let go of the lower right group if I want to maintain my centre, but I'll have to be careful because if that's captured it will be hard to shut white in.
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Author: | hyperpape [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Forced. With the immediate cut, Black takes the corner, starting at a.
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Author: | illluck [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Please feel free to reject trigger. Forcing before living. My first feeling is that white should have just cut as then I might not have time to protect lower right. However, this is still a bit too complicated for me to tell for sure. |
Author: | hyperpape [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Trigger: If you atari in either direction, I will extend. |
Author: | illluck [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Trigger: As below:
Not trigger: Just read the trigger and was surprised that white thought I might atari. My main choices here are the empty triangle and this jump. The advantage of the empty triangle is that white's cutting stone has fewer liberties, but if white keeps extending I am still forced to keep extending so I have to play the jump here in order to avoid making white stronger. Now I expect white to extend out and force me to bamboo. |
Author: | Tryss [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
Obs only : Is this sequence possible for white? :
a capture, b connect or live Now that doesn't change the fact that black center is huge and very solid, so even if the sequence work, it's probably bad (unless white can kill the lower group if black let white play |
Author: | Redundant [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck |
@illuck I doubt white's trigger was anything he thought you would play, but in the off case you did, it would speed up the game. |
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