Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

#241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=10678
Page 8 of 8

Author:  Loons [ Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So I spent a long time wanting to play this move, which is clearly good, but I felt too reducible:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Black has a possibility of a ko fight here.
Unfortunately for him, he doesn't seem to have the necessary ko threats to make it work.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X X , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 5 a . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  xoxo88 [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  Loons [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

I feel quite comfortable ignoring that move, though surely I wanted to play down there myself. I will have a further look if black has some lethal followup I'm not seeing. Mostly I'm torn about continuing in the middle. I'm a little leery because if I keep playing moves in the centre and ceding corner moves, these centre moves must actually be big potatoes...

If I get 'c', black might have to live on the right. 'a' connects my thickness. 'b' seems huge for both to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 a . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . b . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  Loons [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 :w3: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . X X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . O X 3 , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 2 . . X . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Eh, I think I've been making mistakes. I have part of a centre made of wet tissue paper. I think I've mentioned 104 before. It's a move at the edge of two moyos, and aims to rescue my cutting stone on the right.

Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.

Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

@ Loons
Loons wrote:

Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.


Why? Maybe he thought a ~40 point gote move was the biggest on the board, which I find hard to disagree with.

Author:  Loons [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Uberdude wrote:
@ Loons
Loons wrote:

Xoxo must see a followup or have considered bottom left sente for me, neither of which I am sure of.


Why? Maybe he thought a ~40 point gote move was the biggest on the board, which I find hard to disagree with.

Loons wrote:
Eh, I think I've been making mistakes. I have part of a centre made of wet tissue paper.

Relatedly, I was never very confident in my own sequence bottom left, which is perhaps why I misunderestimated it.

Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

@Loons

What was your sequence there? Or what did you hope for but which black resistances were troublesome?

Author:  Loons [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons

Hmm... Earlier, something like this:?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . 7 5 O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 4 O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . 9 3 X X O X 2 X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 0 . O 1 . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 7 5 O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . 6 3 X X O X 2 X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 8 . O 1 . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Which looks worryingly successful, doesn't it. Black could rob the corner or something. Also how sente and likely and necessary was :w1: :b2: at some past point anyway?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc cf.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . X X O X . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . O . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Page 8 of 8 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/