Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Kirby · **#141**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#142**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · **#143**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#144**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Harleqin · **#145**

Kirby · **#146**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O 4 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#147**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X 6 . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

let me know if you disagree

Kirby · **#148**

Actually, I was going for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | 8 X 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O 9 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X 7 . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#149**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm101 Has captured: B - 2, W - 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · **#150**

daniel_the_smith · **#151**

Suji · **#152**

Jedo:

Suji · **#153**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

yoyoma · **#154**

Kirby,

Why no comment about choosing to not atari when Magicwand wedges into a 1 space jump?

daniel_the_smith · **#155**

@Suji

At 90, my first thought was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But then I thought maybe Kirby's move was ok as long as white couldn't extend, IOW, below, black has to be able to play :b92:

. I think it's possible but haven't spent much time reading it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As for the rest of the sequence... I wouldn't be in those positions so I can't say...

And it seems to me that sacrificing that big group of stones is a horrible idea, though there may not be a way to save them now.

dfan · **#156**

Kirby · **#157**

yoyoma wrote:

Kirby,

Why no comment about choosing to not atari when Magicwand wedges into a 1 space jump?

OK. So I thought about playing this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was afraid white would play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B O B . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 1 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And I thought it would be hard for me to do something with those stones. I was afraid that those stones would be weak (in retrospect, though, maybe I prefer this diagram).

So I thought that I should play a move that helps this group. But at the same time, my large group in the bottom left was also weak. I didn't like this. So I thought, OK, I will play a move that threatens to connect my stones AND helps for eyespace. So I was thinking this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

for connecting.

When Magicwand played as he did, I became worried about eyespace for the group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | x x X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | x x . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | x X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 5 X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 O O 7 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . y . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . y y . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought that the area with the "x"s didn't have a lot of space for living. But now that I think about it, the area with "y"s was probably also there if we played this way. So maybe my fear was not warranted.

Anyway, when I was afraid of making eyespace with that group, I felt, "OK. I should change plans. I need to get eyespace for that group. Then I will escape with my large group. So I switched to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 want to get eyespace $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . a O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | 8 2 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 O O 4 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X 7 . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . c . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . b . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . d . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then I thought, "OK, this group is safe now and has eyespace. Now I just have to worry about the bottom group. But there is the chance he will answer at "a", and even if he does not, I have "b" and "c" as miai.

But now that he took away my option of "b", I don't know if I like the idea of running. I have no eyes, and it is dangerous, now...

So I think that I did make a bad decision. This was the thought process I used to arrive there, though.

hyperpape · **#158**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm101 Has captured: B - 2, W - 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure looks like a lot of aji keshi for one small move against the UL. Ok, there's a little eyespace on the left, but it still doesn't seem worth it.

Kirby · **#159**

Suji · **#160**

@daniel:

Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

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