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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #21 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:55 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Man, my Japanese 9x9 rival doesn't open tengen a lot.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #22 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:02 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
It's my only opening as black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #23 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:55 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I`m going to pretend I played that contact move.

Do you mind me chattering inanely during the game ? It's my bad habit, as best explained in haiku.

Chatter at the game
Xiangqi board frowns from his frame:
He's cold, wanting use.

(My xiangqi board, as is common, has "A gentleman awaits his move in silence" in Chinese along one edge).

I much prefer 3-4s in 9x9. Also now my right hand stone looks like a probe against an extra-high enclosure that I have played before.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #24 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Go is supposed to be a social game, right? In a at most tangentially related note, I had a dream last night that I was in New Zealand, visiting Shaddy who was a foreign exchange student there. I'm still not sure if it was a nightmare.
He ignored my contact, so I take my local (hehe local on 9-9 is the entire board) profit. If I find time, I'll dig out some of my OGS games starting with this opening. I play a couple of 9x9 games there each week.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #25 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:47 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


A month ago New Zealand was a nightmare for exchange students (lots were in the bad part of our earthquake). Hm, grim.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #26 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:51 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


You know what I really like about 9x9. It gets interesting very quickly. It's also quite difficult to adapt to after playing a bunch of 19x19.
This space intentionally left blank.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #27 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:06 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 X . . |
$$ | . . , . X . O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Yeh, I like how sometimes the game degenerates into a single mad, scrappy and vulgar fight sometimes. "Sometimes".

On the tactical front, after he cuts I will pick up the forcing atari and then sacrifice one side. He has a lot of input into how the rest of the game goes. Specifically, I will try and sacrifice the two stones with an eye to a split-down-the-middle board. A split-down-the middle board in which komi is huge.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #28 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:29 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . , . X 9 O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


You mean like now?
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #29 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:49 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


You started it (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 7 5 6 1 . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 O X 2 . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . 8 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

My reckoning is that a line like this is good for me, but tricky enough that I might miss something. Also I would like to find something for my two stones to do as zombies. I would like to read a bit further, but I might as well just see his moves, because I dislike the alternative;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Which, hmm. Seems possible, the ball is very much in black's court with the forcing moves.

A little worried about wishful thinking 'cause of the fast play (knock wood), but as I'm seeing a lot of good lines for me, I'm happy to keep the fast pace up.

Edit (grammar)

Edit 2: Metastrategy. Actually, it is my next move that requires thought, not his. So, perhaps playing my next move quickly is a mistake, even though d6 looks very nice to me. I should examine alternatives. It is of course possible that he has gone to bed and is not going to continue our 20 minute move recent schedule.

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #30 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:57 am 
Gosei
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Redundant wrote:
You know what I really like about 9x9. It gets interesting very quickly. It's also quite difficult to adapt to after playing a bunch of 19x19.

Do you find the reverse to be true as well?

edit: Now I REALLY want to play some 9x9 =)

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #31 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:38 am 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Come on ... you were begging for the cut.
Chew Terr wrote:
Redundant wrote:
You know what I really like about 9x9. It gets interesting very quickly. It's also quite difficult to adapt to after playing a bunch of 19x19.

Do you find the reverse to be true as well?

edit: Now I REALLY want to play some 9x9 =)


Nah, the big difficulty for me in 9x9 is figuring out how to play the first couple moves, which is very different from playing on 19x19, so I find the difficulty to be mostly one way.

If you want to start a 9x9 malkovich, I'd love to play another. 9x9 games are nice and snack sized for convenience :D
My past two moves were basically forced. I'll see what he does, and then read ... and read ... and read.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #32 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:48 am 
Gosei
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Redundant wrote:
If you want to start a 9x9 malkovich, I'd love to play another. 9x9 games are nice and snack sized for convenience :D


While I probably shouldn't commit to another Malkovich game, I'd be happy to play either of you one (or a series, depending) on OGS. My handle there's Chew.

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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #33 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:32 am 
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Quote:

Go is supposed to be a social game, right? In a at most tangentially related note, I had a dream last night that I was in New Zealand, visiting Shaddy who was a foreign exchange student there. I'm still not sure if it was a nightmare.


What, uh, the hell?
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #34 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:07 am 
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Shaddy wrote:
Quote:

Go is supposed to be a social game, right? In a at most tangentially related note, I had a dream last night that I was in New Zealand, visiting Shaddy who was a foreign exchange student there. I'm still not sure if it was a nightmare.


What, uh, the hell?


You decided to go to what may have been a catholic school in New Zealand ... I have no idea why.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #35 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:35 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . O X X . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Crazy in dreams how you just sort of accept some things as making fine sense, but then, when you try to relate them to someone else...

Conversely, when I was young and in North America my parents put me in a Catholic school.

I just really like this move. I think the ball is in Redundant's court to try to make a win happen.


I totally agree about the first few moves being tough. Once you get a side that's sort-of yours and a strange cut somewhere it's quite generic (but exclusively local, obviously) fighting, which I find more comfortable.

Can I look at the hidden posts from the start of our original game ? I'm fine with it, and can't really see a reason why not (other than my ridiculously elaborate plan on the second move).

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #36 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:46 pm 
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OGS: redundant
It's fine if you look at what I said in the first game. Warning: I was much weaker at 9x9 back then ... I hope.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #37 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Posts: 924
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . O . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O X X . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Connecting doesn't work for him, as he just dies in the corner after I push through.

This is another idea, but white ends up too thin.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . , . 4 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O X X . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]



After this, the game turns into an endgame problem. I'll count out the game as best I can then.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 , 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O X X . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #38 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:37 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | . . , . X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I hope my confidence in my reading last night was not misplaced. Our exchange here does seem to reinforce my top left and leave a large endgame ko. Wait, let me think about playing 13 directly one space to the left. Yes, I was intending to play here honte anyway. Black could play the cut for many forcing moves. GG confidence there. I think I still have good odds here now, though.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #39 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:09 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | . . 6 5 X X O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . , 7 , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Let me know if you disagree.
I'm going to secure the bottom right a bit. The top still has holes, so I'm ok.


The cut doesn't work (abcd after I run out of numbers).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm14
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 1 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X . |
$$ | . . 3 2 X X O X . |
$$ | . . O 5 6 . O X . |
$$ | . . , 4 7 8 c . . |
$$ | . . . 0 9 a b . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


If he connects his stone in atari, I see ko, but will need to look deeper.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: #68 Redundant vs Loons, 9x9
Post #40 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:40 pm 
Gosei
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I do agree here
You can stop biting your nails
What next, I don't know.

I am going to solve this board as an exercise.


My whole strategy:
Lose under Japanese rules.
Say, "NZ rules, right?"

Haiku! But also probably trivially relevant.

Spend thoughts on Haiku;
a good excuse for losing
after the game ends.

However my plan
Is to win with sweet yose
So it should be moot.

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