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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #21 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:59 am 
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Posts: 175
Liked others: 12
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, so he prevents me getting a move in sente at my leisure that would threaten to resurrect that stone. But I think that I can tenuki from here. He can capture one of my stones and he can get an attack but I have the tengen to run towards and I want to play somewhere big now.

This move improves my left side moyo and it threatens to make a large corner enclosure on the bottom left.

I think that my tengen stone will help with later invasions/reductions if he gets to make a moyo on the right. I just started using the 5-5 recently and it still feels clumsy for me. I figure that it's probably at least as clumsy for my opponent though. I can't wait to here comments on this game from strong players afterwards.


Good to see that people are commenting the game.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #22 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:23 am 
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Posts: 566
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems the biggest to me right now. His left side is getting large, but it will be too easy for him to make nice profit from the attack if I invade directly, I think. So my plan is too approach his left side with :w24: with the aim to invade later. I think (a) is slow, perhaps (b) is the largest right now. If B(b) then I will two-space high pincer as mentioned before.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #23 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:38 am 
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Posts: 175
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered that point on my last turn. The idea being that I thought that it worked well with creating a central moyo, but I felt like that central moyo was too loose and I wanted to try to maintain a bigish left side. But I do have to say that it gives him much better prospects on the bottom now though. In retrospect, I am thinking that it may have been better to take that point myself. Because it would have already been muting a wall if I invaded the 3-4. So I might have got to play that in sente and then play where I played after all. Then finishing the threat of the other part of the enclosure would be bigger.

I'd like to invade the 3-4 now and then finish the enclosure the make the bottom less interesting for him if I can get sente.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #24 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Posts: 566
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[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . Q . . e c . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . f . d O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Because of :wt: I am stronger in this area so it makes sense to hassle black's stone. I'm not really familiar with joseki here, but I imagine the sequence B(a)->W(f) might be typical. However, this looks nice for white so black will probably try to do something more. If B(a) W(b) B(f) then white definitely has the upper hand in this fight, but it will get complicated.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #25 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:50 pm 
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Posts: 175
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . 7 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I didn't know the joseki in the upper right corner in that I've never actually studied it, but I had seen people play it. I really don't know this joseki at all. Three moves jump into my mind.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . a , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All of them have something in common. They all keep white from sealing black in and they separate white's stones. a attaches to the stone on the bottom and strengthens both sets of stones. I think something like this should happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . 2 1 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White does develop nicely on both sides, but maybe this is ok because black didn't get pushed down.
With b something like this happens:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . 6 5 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 O 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this looks really nice for white.

So how about not touching any of white's stones?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . 5 3 9 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . 6 4 . 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe something like this will happen?

I decided after all that I like attaching on the bottom the best.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #26 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:47 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 59
Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . 8 X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger Suggestion:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . 8 X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , Q . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . b b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . d 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . e 8 7 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c c . O 0 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Assuming he accepts the trigger, his next move will probably be at (a) then I will play at either (b) (probably the fourth line since :wt: are low). There is some aji in the (c) area, but it would be too slow to worry about it right now. I'm not sure what his next move will be, if B(d) then W(e) but this is not a good exchange for black. I'll expect the fight at (c).

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #27 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #28 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Posts: 566
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As expected, now to see where he plays next.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #29 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:44 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Right now, my cutting point is protected:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X 2 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But white still has some moves that can take my base:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X 4 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Despite weakening his stone, I think that giving white such a huge corner is a local loss for black.

So I'd play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But then black has no base.

So instead I play this move first:


Which doesn't allow white to play :w4:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . 8 O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 9 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This is what I anticipate happening.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd love to get sente out of this, but then I just create a very weak group that has accomplished little.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #30 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Posts: 566
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Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . 4 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . f . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . e . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . g d X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . c O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a b O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It is hard for me to find a good move here. The basic moves at (a), (b) and (c) all seem a bit slow. I thought about (d) then if B(e) I'd tenuki at (f) and then let the fight at (a) happen. I dismissed it, though, because (d) is already hit at the head so I figured more than likely I'd end up having liberty problems somewhere in the fight. I thought about tenuki at (f) immediately, but the resulting fight is poor for me. I settled with (g) as a sort of compromise. I'm not sure how good it is.

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Post #31 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:43 am 
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Posts: 175
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is tricky. This allows for my opponent to still push into my base if he hane's. Territorially, this is huge, but then it also gives me a weak group. I mean, not just weak, but much weaker than I want to have to deal with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . 1 , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



That said, I've decided to spend another move protecting this group.

I had a couple of options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a is nice because it gives me a possible invasion point later at d and e isn't sente to cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . e . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So it is better on the right side. Except that I think that playing at d in the previous diagram anytime soon helps black solidify his moyo too much if he just sacrifices a stone.

b and c are better on the bottom. c allows a big endgame follow-up if he replies to it for white, so it isn't as good as b. Which allows black a big follow-up if it's ignored (Or possibly even it is responded to. It allows the previous threat at e, but black can capture the two stones if this is threatened. and I feel like black comes out ok. If white protects the cut, then I might play there anyway or, I might attach at the table shape to give more eyespace if I feel it is necessary.

I want to play around all of the points marked a:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . a , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . a . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . a . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . a . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I will have to examine them as the board changes. Some of them, I feel are too passive to play straight out, but are points I'd love for the opponent to force me to play. I really love the concept of forcing the opponent to make me play moves that I'd love to have played anyway.


To observers:

I'd love to read some comments after the game that tell me which of my moves are terribly, terribly wrong. Or just which moves you'd play differently if you were me. Also, questions about why I chose my moves are also welcome. Note that I typed this up a bit drunk, but chose my move while sober, so I have no excuse if my move is no good, but I apologize if my explanations are rambling a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #32 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:12 am 
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[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . e . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . Q . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . d . . . . . . . a T O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought another move down here would be too slow for black. I thought I might get to play at :b35: in the future. He secured that point which threatens cutting at :et:, but it is way to early for that. If he does cut at :et: then W(a) B(b) W(c) sacs two stones in sente and I can play a move like (d) which I am very happy about. I wonder about :wt:, though. It still protects an invasion, but if black directly cuts it does little, but maybe I should have just plated :wt: at :et:. I'm still not sure.

As for my move, I absolutely refuse to play another move at the bottom at this time unless it were (d), but I think (e) is bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #33 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:53 am 
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[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O 7 . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probulator time:
I think that the outside can be clearly bigger, but I'm going to make him commit to that decision now and reserve living underneath. Basically, I want to make him choose the outside right now and then I will play a move on the outside to break up that side. It will of course be a high move. And my tengen stone will be supporting either high invasion on either side. I feel like I'm getting some value out of it to be sure. It's helping bolster my moyo on the left a bit, and it is going to be supporting two relatively weak groups that are played high and so will be able to run fairly easily, I think. I'd also be happy if he took the corner and gave me some light stones to work with. If I get sente, I will strongly consider a play somewhere on the bottom. I feel like he still has some aji in his position over there.

Eh, we'll see. I usually tend to play very aggressively. Actually, I usually play a bit too aggressively. I've found that my best chances of winning come when I play a bit more calmly. But I tend to be a fighter more than anything, so I'm want to find some way of mixing it up more. I feel like this has been a pretty peaceful game.

Very much I want to play on the bottom to expand my moyo towards both the middle and the bottom. Unfortunately, I think that white's moyo is really only primed to get bigger. Not taking K4 was probably my biggest mistake so far, but oh well. This is still a game.


This post by Puppycakes was liked by: Chew Terr
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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #34 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:15 am 
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[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . d a . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O 7 . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . c b . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know what (d) does, so let's dismiss that right away. Playing at (a) defends the corner and lets black live on the side. This is not particularly appealing because of the marked stones. If I play (b) directly then W(c) will lead to a complicated fight. I think playing at (c) is the correct move here.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #35 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 9 . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He still owes another move to take that side as territory.

Heck. Let's take a moment to estimate some territory.

He has about 65 points of territory if he turned all of his moyo into territory including the top right corner and the right side. He could also expand on the top a bit to make maybe another 10 points.

I think that my moyo on the left is maybe 30 or 40 points. And the bottom left might be another 30 though his invasion might be a major nuisance. I also have maybe 8 points of territory in the bottom right. I'm hoping to take some of those points away by playing with his aji on the bottom. Otherwise, expanding my moyo into something bigger and more solid. I'm eying the attachment on top of his stone if his group ends up being pretty strong. I'm thinking that I want to be thick so that I can make a good points from my left side/middle and so that I can hope to kill an invasion attempt underneath.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #36 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:41 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 0 . X . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 9 . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think his move is too greedy. I don't care about points with my bottom group (as long as it doesn't die!), so I don't want to play on that side. I have lots of room in the corner, but I don't particularly want to just live there. So, I'll poke at his ogeima which seems thin. I won't pretend to know how this will develop. I imagine he will gain some solid territory on the side and in the corner, but that's okay -- it's kind of his already.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #37 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:37 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 O . X . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd be happy if this happened.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 O 9 X 6 O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 7 4 5 . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 8 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O X X O O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O X O X . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 O O 2 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #38 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He should split me by descending then I'll play at san-san, I think I can sac these stones and live with no problem. We shall see.

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:41 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 59
Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
@Puppycakes
It doesn't seem like anyone is interested in our game. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #40 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:00 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 175
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2Q
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To mw42:

Yeah, it doesn't seem like many people are paying attention. But I'm still enjoying the game. It's too bad, but I was looking forward to reading some chatter about the game afterwards.

I wonder if white will something like this. I feel like I might be able to kill that way, but I'll read it out if it happens.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . 1 O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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