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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #21 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:15 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 49
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To no-one's surprise, I'm simply playing the reply that I said I would.

So far, you can regard my grappling moves from the attachment at J17 onward as more or less automatic. It wouldn't take much in the way of conscious thought to produce them in a normal game, though like every other Malkovich-move I make, I try to show some reason(s) for playing the way I do.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O b O X X c . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . d # O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . e 9 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


The idea here -- and the reason why it's usually good to draw back from a crosscut -- is that this move will generate tactics on either side of the cut. I'm pretty much poised to catch the marked Black stone as things stand, and it's not so easy to help it. If I get a) or b), blocking at c) to catch the other two stones is activated. If Black takes d) but I remove the liberty at b), netting tactics are open. e) isn't really viable for Black, either; there's a reason why hane at both ends of two stones is regarded as a problem for the two stones...

Black b) cannot cut me, either.

Black has options, still, but I think that I've taken much of the edge off of them. Black can't prevent me from getting a result of some sort or another, here; my opponent needs to decide what I get and how I get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #22 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:34 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 175
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 3
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This is the move that I expected and of course it threatens to ladder my stone. I'd like to avoid that possiblity, so my inclination is to move that stone, but how?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O d O X X e . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b c O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a doesn't work because after black responds at d, he can net me.

b and c both threaten to capture a single white stone, so they both kind of work.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . 7 8 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 6 O X X 4 0 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 3 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O O X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O X O 5 O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 6 7 8 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 2 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But with b white gets to play :w4: which I think I might be able to handle because of white's cutting point, but I feel like afterwards, my stones become heavy floating stones which I don't like.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After :w2: I have no good response.

So I should just connect my stones at this point.

Of course, he doesn't HAVE to ladder me either.

He can play like this and squeeze me. But after I play e, he definitely can't tenuki. If that happens, I won't play the squeeze sequence out right away. It would definitely be gote to kill that stone after I he initiates the squeeze sequence, so I can leave it as aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 5 O X X 1 . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 4 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 2 8 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Anyhow, if he played the ladder, I'd play a ladder breaker next. Then I might close the bottom right corner. This will make miai of the two invasion points in white's moyo. Then if he protects one, I will take the other.

I'm not quite sure if b works. If it doesn't, it very nearly does. I wonder what stronger players would play.

I decided to play b in the end because I like crazy fighting and because I can learn something from complicated situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #23 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:50 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 49
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O b O X X 2 . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . c X O e O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X d O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |[/go]


:w21: for :b22: is almost to be expected, though maybe Black will try pushing at e). I'm forced to protect my cut, and Black is forced to protect, too. Especially considering that I'm probably going to play atari from c) rather than d) -- I'm protecting the stones on the top, and discarding the center stones -- :w21: makes a better eyeshape than b), and is worth more points in yose, besides.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #24 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:58 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 175
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 3
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X 2 . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The reason my diagrams had him atari first was so that he could protect against my capturing his two stones in sente. His move has the advantage of undercutting my group while protecting against that weakness. But now I think that he's pretty solidly cut. This generally weakens his groups which makes my invasion a success.

Right now I'm happy. I'm not elated, but I'm happy. My two stones are still pretty weak too. I just hope that he doesn't see some amazing tesuji that I've missed. Though, it's never bad to learn a new amazing tesuji.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #25 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:46 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 49
Liked others: 1
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move is where I need to think more carefully. There are some things I quite simply can't play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 6 . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]

That looks like screaming overplay. I can't get a meaningful result if I can't follow up to the hane with the cut at :w25:, but the cut is not working after :b26:

On a somewhat related note, this seems just too low:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 b c . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


Black could just cover at a) and my shape isn't even that great. There's be aji in that b)-c) gap.

So what about the diagonal?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


Slow but solid. I'm not threatening anything, really.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . X a O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


This knight's move is sharper but thinner. Here I'm directly asking to connect at a).

Of course I could consider to just play atari:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . d c . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . # . a . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 5 X 4 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . 8 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


In this variation my center stones are (relatively) cleanly killed, but Black may also try to capture on a larger scale. My eyeshape is pretty good, but it's not so easy to pressure the corner stone now. A whole variety of Black moves can possibly produce sente against my group. I'm not sure I like this path. I want clearer benefit on the left, and more aji with my stones in the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 5 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 X 6 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


This :w23: above attempts a riff on the previous variation. Like this I'd be satisfied to have the initiative again. Black appears to make a questionable move compared with the previous variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . # . . . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 X 4 O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


:b26: is dubious to me, Black can at least jump to a). Anyway, continuing to think about the shoulder hit, what if Black resists? Here's where we need to read deeply, though it's something of a one-way street.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 4 5 . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 3 2 X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 6 1 0 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


And continuing,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm33 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 7 . . O 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . O 3 O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O 2 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


:b32: for :w33: is optional for Black, but I put it in as the variation I'm most concerned about regarding the stones on the top. They seem to live, but barely and in gote. I've not prepared to do anything else on the board. I cannot play this way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . b . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


So do I come down the middle with a) or b)?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . d O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . e O c O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . b a f X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


If :w23:, :b24: is maybe most likely. I probably can't be cut just yet. But what do I do next? It's hard to attack the corner because I'm thin.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . 7 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


If this :w23:, then Black can maybe just reinforce the corner. It takes an extra move to threaten the cutting stones, and the running fight doesn't seem very good to me. Black is getting territory on both sides, and is walking between my weak groups.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . b a . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


So, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and play the more delicate knight's move. Maybe we'll continue it as above, but I'll think about it a bit more.

Let's doublecheck the cutting, though, since Black b) is actually more plausible than a):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 5 9 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 6 X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


I can deal with it, I guess. I really need to think about finding territory, though..

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #26 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:31 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 175
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also considered playing E17 first. I believe that he'd then just kill my cutting stones, but I would have gotten it in sente and it would have helped my corner quite a bit, but I think that I should strengthen these here cutting stones. Afterwards, he'll probably play something to fix that weakpoint while pressuring my corner as his group builds up some strength.

I do have to be sure to watch after my corner stone, but I feel generally good about the game. I am happy with having cut white's stones so thoroughly and I feel good about being able to pressure his groups. Generally, I feel good in a game when I feel like I'm pressuring the opponent which is why I think I tend to like fighting. Because I really enjoy the feeling of forcing the opponent to submit to my will a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #27 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:40 pm 
Gosei
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My sealed move, hidden from players:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X a O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . c 5 b . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If 'a' then 'b', and vice versa. Because of that, it seems like B has to block at 'c', which seems to start an interesting fight. That said, maybe F15 should jump out again to prepare this move.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #28 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:51 pm 
Lives in gote
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KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
@chew
Could you explain you intresting fight idea? to me this looks horrible for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 And now?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . B . 5 . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 4 X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I mean sure the :bc: stone does not look to healthy but the white middle stones look very dead to my eyes and that is a pretty big area

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"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #29 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Yay! People are watching our game!

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #30 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:31 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Mnem, I was looking at the fight after the following cut at G13. Black has very few liberties, so white's likely to get something locally. That said, it's probably best to just jump to F13 first. It seems to be fairly sente, because it makes that wedge work. While that will make black strengthen in the middle, it makes white even stronger against the corner/left.

That said, my reading is REALLY not to be trusted. Particularly today.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #31 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:42 pm 
Lives in gote
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@chew
I agree that Wf13 would result in a winnable result for White but I'm not too sure I would play the wedge even then. White has soooo many cutting points and 2 weak groups on the sides. I'm really bad at evaluating aji but I'm pretty certain that that must be a prime example of it.

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"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #32 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:04 pm 
Tengen
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FWIW, I'd probably do this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . 5 6 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . a . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now either the corner comes under severe attack, or White can run his stones out whilst attacking with "a" or sac more forcefully with "b"

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #33 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:32 pm 
Lives in gote
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Puppycakes wrote:
Yay! People are watching our game!

In my experience you are just in the right strength range to get exactly [b]0[\b] comments on your game.

If your ddk everybody and their mother throw advice at you.
At 5k you might get an occasional comment from an 1k or so

And at dan level the game is generally followed by everybody with a minimal interest in Malkovich games.


You are right there in the dead zone where no sdk dares to comment and the game is too unimportant to dan players. :sad:

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"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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Post #34 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:38 pm 
Honinbo
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chew, Mnemonic,
Mnemonic wrote:
Could you explain you intresting fight idea? to me this looks horrible for white.
Yes, I think the wedge is bad; at the mininum, W's shape is broken:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W # X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . # W O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #35 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:16 am 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . c b . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I ultimately decided on going here first, to try and test Black's response. I'll try to explain some of my reasoning next post.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #36 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:20 am 
Lives with ko

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


E17 was a major problem for him, so he definitely had to find a way to fix it. I thought perhaps he might be able to double approach and that wouldn't be bad for him. Personally, this feels a bit like a thank you move to me. It is probably sente, but my responding to it is probably not a bad idea.

The only tricky thing is to decide how to respond to it. I mean, I think that a couple of responses are good for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . f . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . b d . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . c a . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The shapes that all stick out at me as feasible are a b c and d.

The advantage of a is that it helps me with central influence a bit. After this move, I'd be further out into the center than white's group and I'd be threatening to seal his group in. All the while, I feel like it helps me begin to close my corner a bit, too. Which is also kind of the reason behind considering c. With c, I jump ahead also a bit, but I do it on the third line which is a little bit more solid.

The idea behind b is that it does more to close the corner than the other moves. and it undercuts his group a bit. And it has a follow-up move at e that he has to worry about.

I think that with b something like this might happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 0 O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 2 O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 O O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I think that's a pretty big corner, I think that this would have been good for me. Honestly, I kind of think that he gave me a bunch of pleasant choices here. None of them are particularly bad.

I decided that I want central influence to affect the rest of the board, so I went with a, And I think that I might be able to play b in almost sente later because it will give me the follow up at f.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #37 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:23 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 175
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2Q
Mnemonic wrote:
Puppycakes wrote:
Yay! People are watching our game!

In my experience you are just in the right strength range to get exactly [b]0[\b] comments on your game.

If your ddk everybody and their mother throw advice at you.
At 5k you might get an occasional comment from an 1k or so

And at dan level the game is generally followed by everybody with a minimal interest in Malkovich games.


You are right there in the dead zone where no sdk dares to comment and the game is too unimportant to dan players. :sad:


I've been following pretty much all of the Malkovich games. But I don't always comment, but it does feel good to have some feedback. It would be especially nice if more dan players commented because I'd love to have some of the type of information on errors from the "Almost dan" level of players such as myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #38 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:53 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
Location: Dresden
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Of course my post's aren't that helpful to the players but it seems like they like attention :mrgreen:
At first I was perplexed by last whites move and it looked pretty good. On an empty board I usually play the hane against that stone but here both of them fail. I see Puppycakes played an extension but it seems kind of slow to me. I'm wondering if a one space jump or a keima would have been better.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Something like this, maybe?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #39 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:37 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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Rank: Nebulous
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KGS: topazg
Mnemonic wrote:
Of course my post's aren't that helpful to the players but it seems like they like attention :mrgreen:
At first I was perplexed by last whites move and it looked pretty good. On an empty board I usually play the hane against that stone but here both of them fail. I see Puppycakes played an extension but it seems kind of slow to me. I'm wondering if a one space jump or a keima would have been better.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Something like this, maybe?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |[/go]


I really like Black's move. I wasn't so keen on White's, as the corner aji is mostly gone. Here, White can't hane where he wants to in sente, so it's hard for White to follow up locally well, and Black's pushing his way down the 4th line. I think White wants to make Black squirm in the corner, not make it all his. Still, it will be interesting to see where things go from here :) PS, from your diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Something like this, maybe?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . 9 7 X 1 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |[/go]


This looks pretty good for White :)

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 Post subject: Re: Game #119--Puppycake vs. Parliament
Post #40 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:25 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 49
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Right, so this way I will double hane into the corner. My group will tend to become settled in the process. I have counterplay if Black cuts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 3 4 . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 1 5 . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . 7 X @ . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . c # . O . X e O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . a f . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . d . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can then think of either b) or c) as followups, for now or maybe for later. I thought about making :w27: into a peep at a), because it enhances my choices somewhat if Black chose to put :bs: at :w27:, and it's less likely that the peep will be answered after exchanges strenthen Black's shape in the corner. However I found some variations that I could tolerate even without the peep, and the peep is ajikeshi with respect to my stones in the center. I can still jump at d), sure, but quite notably I lose the potential to atari at e) then push/cut at f).

But why play the kick ( :ws: ) in the first place? It has some family resemblence with really bad moves, like this one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X a . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There :b26: just slams the door in my face, and :w25: is not all that helpful in making a base since Black can still do stuff like a). It's like I'm helping Black to take all the points in the corner while cramping my group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . c . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . b . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . a . @ . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Kicking is heuristically a better shape because of the better reinforcement of :ws:, but it still looks a bit like a bad exchange, on some general grounds. Black stands at a), and the solid connection is more powerful than the diagonal in a typical close-quarters situation. Often there's a weakness at b), working in conjunction with c) hane etc; there's the potential to cover at d) and stuff like that. I can't say that I'm not helping Black build shape, here, but remember that my group is weak, and I chose a thin knight's move to move it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . @ . @ X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X W . W . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ . X . W . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . . . # . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have two weak groups. The center 3 stones ( :wc: ) are reasonably light, pointwise, and I can't commit to moving them when my other group is weak as well, especially with the hole at a), and Black's :bs: which makes it hard to coordinate with the right.

I'd really like to be able to move them later on, though, because these stones cut a Black group in the center. I chose the thin knight's move to try to discourage Black from simply reinforcing the corner; that induced :bc:. Before I can do anything else with that aji, and probably before I can do anything else at all, I need to strengthen my 'main' weak group. The natural way to try to strengthen is to harass the corner stone somehow.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . C . b . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . C X a . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . C S . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm constantly worried about the usefulness of Black forcing moves like a) and b). This limits how severely I can play. The :ec: seem too difficult to pull off; I can't allow myself to be cut, and generate another group here, and I don't see any useful sacrifice tactics starting from any of those moves. Attachment at :es: won't seal Black in, and tends to cede the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 4 5 . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . a 1 3 O 6 X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probably Black can just peep like this :b26: first, though if that fails, he can always play it at a) instead and I can't crosscut or anything. Anyway, it doesn't look like I can resist strongly, as the fight becomes unfavorable. The knight's move that I threw out as a possibility in a previous post is a bit wishy-washy; it has no special tactical properties and is another thin move. Black can quite possibly just reinforce his corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . a . X . . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . c O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black can force with :b26: then I have to reinforce my connection somehow, then Black can probably just play a). He'll be reasonably solid in the corner, and ready to cut through at b) or c). I'd need another move to fix and maybe build more eyeshape, but it's hard to say that I'm really gaining much here. Black is clearly the one earning the points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 4 . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't even attach at :w25: here, either, to try to make a base in the corner. I can't effectively resist this variation in which Black peeps with :b26:; either :ws: or :w25: is going to get cut off and entirely lose its meaning.

I'm sure you're noticing a trend in these diagrams; as I said before, I'm too thin to exert tremendous pressure on the corner; when I try to do so, I get bitten by sente moves like :b26:. I still need to get strong, though, so how about we fix the aji first? They say that my opponent's good move is my good move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . O . O X X X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . c X 1 . . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . b . O . X . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The kick produces miai. Black can help himself to one of either a) or b), but I get to hane at the other. Trust me that I read both ways out carefully, to try to ensure an acceptable result. It's not completely settled how my opponent will play, but there's some room here for Black to misjudge. And most importantly, I'm confident that I won't be ripped apart by ordinary, obvious moves, which would almost surely happen if I made an impatient overplay like :w25: at c).

So now at move 27, technically speaking, we're in a branch of my planning for move 25. I decided that it would be a bit too much to talk about the entire tree at move 25, so I chose to wait and explain my reading closely only for the path that Black actually chooses.

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