This occurs frequently in my games with the chinese : either my opponent approach immediatly Q3 or not at all.
then at some point the good move is to enclose ... but not too soon...
maybe it is too soon I will be very interested on the opinion of obvservers ? i have played several games with a similar B setup and sometimes i played tengen here instad of enclosing (i wonder what is best ?) on KGS so i feel on familiar ground (but still not sure its good)

I feel like my formation here is more efficient that W formation: i have a lot of places to enter his framework thanks to the dual san-san .
We are heading towards a game of opposing framewroks and i think that those 2 san-san are not well suited for that
Next i am considering playing around tengen if he take it i will separe the left probably.
He might invade the upper right now but then i think i get a big gain on the bottom right.

I played a lot of moves on the same side but again, his play reduce the values of the other sides IMHO

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm13
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . c . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . b . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

His moyo is starting to take shape.

Here my 3 considered moves :
a : I love this move. It'll have impact on an invasion on both top and left sides, and it begins to look for altitude. More, if B play a, it'll be painful. But it's gote. A quadruple purpose move, must be good

b : the move I hesitated with before. With B last move in place, I suppose B would not fear an invasion next, and simply tobi up.

c : classical reduction move. I feel it becomes urgent, but it must be gote, and I really want a.

So a

wtf? can t be good : if he had started with thw hoshi he would never have played the sans-san to follow.
I was becoming worried that my own was too slow but this is even slower.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm15 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . .|
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . c . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

I considered a,b ,c ,d.
of course W can still barely invade at one of the 2 e, but i would get a lot of cash attacking those. if i add one more move in my framework such as c , i mus commit to kill his invasion i think, i am not sure ican manage.
b is pleasing because it extends my moyo to the outmost, d is at the separatio line.
but the, he add played 4 mve on the right and i still have roome for a @ space extension on either side: this split would have been ok at the start with @ hoshi ie 2 W moves, with 4 W moves it has to be even better (considering that the extra moves will not help him take profit on my future right group.)
as for the other points, he cant take them all at once

I'd be interested to hear what stronger players think - especially as I have little experience in playing the first corner move at the 3-3 - but my initial reaction was the same as perceval's; 4-4 looks a very strange follow up.

First: my prediction

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm15 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . 9 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

I think black has an easy time with this fuseki. Not game breaking but I think white is behind. First of I would not have allowed the K4 extension, but this might be a stylistic choice since up to that point the position has appeared in pro games. But to not invade after K4 was the first mistake of the game. As far as I know it is the standard (only?) pro response and will be played immediately. Black now has a very good framework with a lot of cash in the corner (I say very good because R9 looks slightly out of place)
But D16? I'm sorry but this is a clear mistake. And not a theoretical one like the one discussed before. I think this move really tipped the game in blacks favor (and not just on the theoretical level)

At first sight, I wanted to tenuki. After all, he threatens nothing.

But if I attack, there's two options. The first is the one played. I see something like that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm16
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

Next, a is good for both.

The second, attack from the bottom, doesn't seem to give good follow-up :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm16
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 2 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

There's not much to do with the bottom group.

I know you're supposed to attack from the weak side, but none is really weak (that was the aim of the sansan after all).

I feel this is completely the wrong direction. Now the top 33 is clearly misplaced. Also, in this variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm16
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

is considered almost always a mistake. Black strengthens himself while white still leaves an invasion point. Black might be slightly overconcentrated, but remember that white has a stone at C13. If blacks extension was a 3-space one, he would want to add another stone. You also provide black with another 4th line stone and with more influence than in my variation. This can't be good for white in this situation.

Good analysis. I too think white played on the wrong side. If this variation is played, black would still be under pressure due to the presence of white's 4-4 stone. The bottom left has good shape now, and white can aim for a double wing formation by playing around a. b,c, and d also look interesting for white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm16
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 2 . b . . . . . . . . d . X . . .|
$$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . a . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

but really i believe tryphon is making some mistakes here.
I wasnt a fan of its 4-4 but after playing at c11 i had some regrets because if he had checked form below his formation on the bottom would have been perfect.
now my natural 2-space extension comes as a good approach of his 4 line stone (i have plenty of room to slide under for eyes if doesnot kick me-- but kicking me would strengthen me)+ the bottom look cramped.
Still, not sure if my was good as it will live small and he will get sente but things could have been worse

Just after playing my last move, I got convinced that after all, attack from the bottom was better to develop the top. Never mind.

So, what to do now ? I want to keep his invasion weak to force him to flee. I have two objectives : develop the top, and attack the K4 stone. For that, I considered :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm17
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . b a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . c . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

These 3 moves have the same meaning, he can get an eye in gote. I can't really choose between the 3. I like c

Strangely, the move ill placed is D6, that I played high to keep the high low balance. I sometimes ask myself about the pertinence of this principle.

When and what to play against the bottom right enclosure?

mm unusal shape that highlight my lack of fundamentals: no idea what to do. i really, REALLY want to play N15, but urgent before big, urgent before big....

one thing i never understood about the 2 space extension + nobi here is the answer to the peep:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm19 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . 7 X 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . 5 4 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

it seems that not playing here contradicts playing in the first place BUT this allows the uncutable 2 space extension to be cut
This has always bugged me. i guess that B reinforce itself of course ..
maybe i am missing some continuation here.
maybe that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm19 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . 8 X 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | 0 5 4 2 7 . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . 6 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

mm kikashi that looks better
i would like some info after the game to know if this sequence is good, i never thought of it but it looks so much better than forcing W to cut
thanks @Edlee: i wanted to avoid the "broken shape"(TM) comment for previous diag so this came up.
This is something that is changing in my game lately i try to force my opponent into taking stones and forcing from outside.
NOT saying that this variation is necessarily good HERE but at least i thought of looking for forcing moves without trying to defend everything which is a recent improvement of mine (imho) not really translated int o stellar results so far.

AAAnyway i hesitates briefly with the other nobi BUT he threaten to make a bigger moyo up top so ill extend in that direction, plus he has 1 stone above (C 13)vs 2 on the bottom.
i also still wonder if tenuki would have been all right.

As planned in previous thread.

To be true, I hesitated much between a and b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm20
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . z . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

If I play a, he can play b, what limits the beginning moyo.

But if I play b, he may answer around d, what makes a better, but also at c, which leads to the same complication as before. And we will stille jump across the board. On one hand, I make a decent territory in the top, but OTOH, he reinforces far too much his moyo, the reduction point at z become less efficient. Moreover, he can directly answer at e what is really good for him !

I regret my move at C13

I expect him to respond locally, or b.

See and Post 73:
www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 9&start=60

again lots of hesitation here. i really want to block W advance:
i was tempted to try:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

here i am ok because by bottom right is huuuge

BUT:
if he keeps pushing its not so good:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 No prisonners
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 1 . . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

.
So I need to get E13 ,s o why not take it now ?
if he defends ill play P12.
he might continue on the right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 should invade the top at a,b c or around...
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . c . . . a O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

my main assets are on the bottom and not really threatened by W advance as long as i can continue damaging its top from the left i will compsentate his reduction on the right

EDIT: right after i posted i realized that D13 would have been more forcing on the right .. why didnt i thought of it earlier ??? the rectangular shape of B is a little weird

As I said before, his move doesn't come as a surprise. But I'm not sure he did well not responding 20 (I don't say he's wrong though, his last play has immediate effects). So I'll go on on this side.

I must attack some stones. The strongest are the circled, the weakest the triangled.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm22
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O z . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . B . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . B . . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . b a . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c d . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

I thought about invading at a, b, c, or d, but found I'd be in a difficult position while he streghtens his stones.

Considering the circled stones are not yet completely alive (consider a W play at z), and the proximity of W stones, I play this attachment. My aim is to make some strength between cicled and triangled stones, to invade the bottom (towards c or d).

I expect him to hane, above or beneath my stone. In both case, I think I'll crosscut.

question was which hane ?
didnt like the hane above because of that: (and if i play elsewhere my is caught in a ladder)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm23
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 8 X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4 6 . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 X . . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . 1 O 3 . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

I first thought crosscutting. That can lead to :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm24
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 9 . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 X 1 . .|
$$ | . . O . # . . . . . . . . 7 6 O X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 2 . .|
$$ | . . X . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

The corner is big, but he gets a big moyo, all of his stones work, and the influence I make doesn't seem really efficient because of the marked stones.

I expect him to atari :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm24
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . O X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 1 . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

I hope to make sabaki and erase his bottom moyo.

i think i am too fond of the tight connection... here i am worried about weakness at a,b ,c .
if i atari i am back to the line i didnt like in my comment before.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm25
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X a . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . O X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

the other atari i dont like either:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm25
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 b . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X 4 . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . 2 O X 5 .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . .|
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

after the solid connection i will really threaten to cut so hell have to cover.
Then i might cover the bottom: all i want for my top group is easy life, my assets are on the bottom.
i think as long as i can keep the W top in check i dont need a bunch of points on the right.

No, this result is impossible for B: broken shape,
and huge point difference (40+ (??) point swap).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$------------------
$$. . . . . . . . .|
$$. . . . . O . . .|
$$O . . O . . X . .|
$$. . . . . B . . .|
$$. . . . @ @ @ . .|
$$. . . O B B @ . .|
$$. . . O X O X . .|
$$. . . . X . X . .|
$$. . . . . . . . .|[/go]