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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #21 Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:30 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm happy with this development. I welcome the chance to make more or less solid base on the right side before attacking one or both of his weak groups. Of course the ideal pincer is one step closer, but I don't want to give him a chance to split me. If he approaches my top-right handicap stone from two directions, I will try to keep him split.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #22 Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:04 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I can't force a Magicwand-style game, because I'm not Magicwand. He does inspire me, but I've still got to play my own game. This is the move that looks good to me, so I'm going with it.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #23 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:06 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First I thought of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O c X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a 3 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now white can cut (a-b-c), which I don't like (I might get a good result, but it leads to a complicated fight which I would like to avoid against a stronger player)

Since we haven't agreed on using joseki dictionaries, I'm not using one, and I'm notoriously bad at joseki without any help.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #24 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:36 am 
Lives with ko

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@TJ:

In your second diagram, play 4 at c instead.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:55 am 
Gosei

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@lorill:
lorill wrote:
In your second diagram, play 4 at c instead.

Thanks. So simple, so elegant.

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Post #26 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:54 am 
Honinbo
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TJ,
This seems a very good opportunity to study the :wc: double approach,
especially when you have the :bc: stone. After (a-b-c), B cuts at (d), you know W cannot atari at (e);
W can only atari at (f). This simplifies the reading a little bit. Next, W will probably
hane at (g). I'm curious to see your analysis. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$----------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . W c X 4 g . |
$$ . . b a 3 . . |
$$ . . 2 X O . . |
$$ . . . 1 d f . |
$$ . . . . e . . |
$$ . . . . B . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #27 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:53 am 
Honinbo

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Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, locally, I am OK with this exchange:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W B . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


His diagonal play feels a bit awkward to me. Globally, I would like to attack these stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So in that sense, the extending, above, might hurt the chances of getting such an attack in (though I like the play locally). That's because he'll probably continue to play to split me.

That's why I want to play 3-3 first, to see how he'll play next.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:59 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This feels like the correct direction to block. This way his stone @R14 becomes very lonely, and my two stones on the right side hopefully get connected to the upper right corner group.

If I block the other way, his stone @O16 will still have plenty of room to make life for itself, and my groups may stay separated

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Post #29 Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:06 am 
Gosei

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@EdLee:

EdLee wrote:
This seems a very good opportunity to study the :wc: double approach,
especially when you have the :bc: stone. After (a-b-c), B cuts at (d), you know W cannot atari at (e);
W can only atari at (f). This simplifies the reading a little bit. Next, W will probably
hane at (g). I'm curious to see your analysis. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$----------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . W c X 4 g . |
$$ . . b a 3 . . |
$$ . . 2 X O . . |
$$ . . . 1 d f . |
$$ . . . . e . . |
$$ . . . . B . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |[/go]

It seems there are still many, quite complex, variations. I will try to spend some time on this later and return to this analysis. Perhaps even in a new thread.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:02 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll just take points for now...

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:24 am 
Gosei

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I need to think about this for a while

There are so many tempting spots (in random order):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . j . . a . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . j . . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . g , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . h . . . . . . . . . . i . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . d . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm pretty sure that one of these is if not best then at least a very good choice. But which to choose?

a: extends and attacks but beckons invasion
b, e: claims corner while preparing an attack on the lone white stone
c: pretty much captures the white stone and connects the two black groups
d: natural extension from both corners
f, h: pincers the white stone while preparing to extend and pincer the other
g: splits the left side
i: deepends the right side while attacking the two white stones
j: a more peaceful extension preparing for a

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #32 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:21 pm 
Judan
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My gut feel is that those 3 stones in the upper right need to be a little stronger. I'd put the two marked points at the top of my short list of candidates.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . X X C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . C X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #33 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:08 am 
Gosei

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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I decided to go with my first instinct. I don't wont my top-right group to become a target, I believe this takes care of that. There probably are bigger points on the board, and this may not be urgent, but I prefer to play safe here. (Also I couldn't really decide what would be best if I played elsewhere)

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #34 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:03 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O 7 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that this is an important spot in this shape. I'll try to get as much benefit as I can in the local area.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #35 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:10 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

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Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
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I have vague suspicion that there was a joseki here that tj was half-remembering and I am hopefully remembering.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Something like this
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 6 4 2 . . |
$$ , . . 7 O 5 X 3 . . |
$$ . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Not sure how relevant this trick/refutation is here.
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 5 2 . . |
$$ , . . . O 4 X 3 . . |
$$ . . . . 1 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
Where :b5: & :w6: reversed is normally being tricked.

I feel white's game result is too good. Perhaps one of Joaz' moves would have been a sufficient recovery.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #36 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:51 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I know this is terrible shape, but nothing else seems to work.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #37 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:10 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wonder if he'll give me sente. I guess even if he doesn't, I still get potential for greater local benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #38 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:24 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . 0 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only move. I hope I haven't missed anything

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:13 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Again... Will I get sente?

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 Post subject: Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Post #40 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:36 am 
Lives with ko

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Kirby wrote:
Again... Will I get sente?

I'd bet that you will, but you shouldn't count on it.

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