Life In 19x19 :: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

below is what i hoped.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below is what i think is going to happen

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . 3 O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 2 8 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below is what i would play if i was black..but i dont think it fits my opponent's style.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , 3 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

my pincer is not what i first drew in my head.. actually it was a misread of other pincer.. :-?

but it is a playable joseki so no harm done... i see my opponent being very careful about his next move. (my move usually takes few second)
what i feel about above three diag..
first two are joseky and played by professionals many many times.
but i feel it favors white. that is why i like third diag that uses the power of your first move effectively.
does anyone else feel like i do?

Some other possibilites in my mind. If I take the corner directly and he blocks at c4 and the makes extension around c9 then what happens if I cut (there is a question of whether white should play :w12:

directly without losing a liberty):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 White blocks to left $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O 6 O . . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 4 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Cut $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . 6 7 . a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O 1 4 O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X O X 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure who I prefer above. Another idea is to play the hane and then extend rather than dodge to the corner (attach at d3 is a similar idea). This is quite a complicated joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Complex joseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 6 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 9 . 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 0 O 1 . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next black could play a to develop on both sides, and white plays b to which blacks comes out with the empty triangle at c. Another idea is to develop the lower side with d-e-f which allows white to play on the left side, but black still has useful aji if white cuts at c7 or pincers to attack the group as a whole.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 Complex joseki part 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 2 . O d . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X c f . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . 1 b . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My latest thoughts. As I said previously I'm reluctant to play g4 and then take corner as it makes white thick. If I take the corner directly and white e3 I will be happy. But I don't like it if he c4. One possible sequence is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Black gives white a wall and takes territory $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O 4 O 0 . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 5 X 6 9 . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When white extends to c10 (or thereabouts) this works nicely with d16 to develop the left side. I'm not loving this for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 Contd.. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X X X O X 2 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If the board was like this I would like this varaition as black is trying to develop the right side so white getting a strong group poking out is nice, and the top left corner is a white stone so black's wall is less effective.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm6 Example of good direction for this joseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 5 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Example of good direction for this joseki contd. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 7 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 5 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
below is what i hoped. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 4 . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] below is what i think is going to happen Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . \| $$ \| . . 3 O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 2 8 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] below is what i would play if i was black..but i dont think it fits my opponent's style. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . O , 3 . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] my pincer is not what i first drew in my head.. actually it was a misread of other pincer.. but it is a playable joseki so no harm done... i see my opponent being very careful about his next move. (my move usually takes few second) what i feel about above three diag.. first two are joseky and played by professionals many many times. but i feel it favors white. that is why i like third diag that uses the power of your first move effectively. does anyone else feel like i do?

Author:	Uberdude [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I decided I had done enough thinking and should move, after all Magicwand will probably do something bonkers anyway! In the end the choice was c14 or c6. I decided c14 was trying to be a bit too fancy and c6 is fine. I'll probably go for the hane at g4 if he attaches at f4 as I want sente for r5, and I think it's ok to play that old joseki that's now considered a little bad in exchange for getting sente. P.S did anyone read my novel, should I keep writing that level of detail?

Author:	jts [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
@uberdude I obviously can't demand that you write so much excellent material for every move, but I read your novel and found it to be of the highest quality. This is shaping up to be the best Malkovich game ever.

Author:	crux [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
I liked the novel.

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Uberdude may read this : ) Uberdude wrote: P.S did anyone read my novel, should I keep writing that level of detail? Yes! Please! =) It's highly educational how (and under which aspects) you approach different situations and positions and how far you consider moves!

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

149. Uberdude vs Magicwand http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5259	Page 2 of 9

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
@Uberdude: Uberdude wrote: ... P.S did anyone read my novel, should I keep writing that level of detail? YES!

Author:	Shaddy [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Magicwand I think the first one definitely favors white and the second one is close to even. I don't know what to think about the third diagram.

Author:	Celebrir [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Uberdude, Uberdude wrote: P.S did anyone read my novel, should I keep writing that level of detail? Every detail is wanted ! It is already nice to see a game between two good players. To get information why they did a move in such a detailed way is even greater !

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
F4. Nothing fancy yet. Same old joseki.

Author:	1986 [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
this is the greatest game commentary i ever read in my whole entire life

Author:	Loons [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
@Magicwand This double approach might get really complicated, eh. Are you going to aim for a simple result? Considering you were initially expecting straightforward joseki.

Author:	Uberdude [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . 8 . . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Some other possibilites in my mind. If I take the corner directly and he blocks at c4 and the makes extension around c9 then what happens if I cut (there is a question of whether white should play at directly without losing a liberty): Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 White blocks to left $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 O 6 O . . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 3 4 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm17 Cut $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . 6 7 . a . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O O O O 1 4 O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . X X O X 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I'm not sure who I prefer above. Another idea is to play the hane and then extend rather than dodge to the corner (attach at d3 is a similar idea). This is quite a complicated joseki: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Complex joseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X 6 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 9 . 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O 0 O 1 . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 3 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Next black could play a to develop on both sides, and white plays b to which blacks comes out with the empty triangle at c. Another idea is to develop the lower side with d-e-f which allows white to play on the left side, but black still has useful aji if white cuts at c7 or pincers to attack the group as a whole. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm19 Complex joseki part 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X O 2 . O d . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O X c f . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . O X X . 1 b . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	Kirby [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Shaddy wrote: Magicwand I think the first one definitely favors white ... Why?

Author:	Shaddy [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Kirby wrote: Shaddy wrote: Magicwand I think the first one definitely favors white ... Why? Well, that "joseki" sucks for black, for one, 'cause White's got all kinds of nasty ways to follow up on it. And White's got this nice reducing stone right where Black's 3-4 stone wants to make territory, while White has a reasonable shape on the left.

Author:	hyperpape [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
He's known for playing quite slowly on OGS,and the two of them have played there before. Besides, there's so much fun for psychological games--how will Magicwand react?

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Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Loons wrote: @Magicwand This double approach might get really complicated, eh. Are you going to aim for a simple result? Considering you were initially expecting straightforward joseki. i don't see any complications. Infact i welcome complications

Author:	1986 [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
The suspense is killing me

Author:	Uberdude [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Still thinking... My latest thoughts. As I said previously I'm reluctant to play g4 and then take corner as it makes white thick. If I take the corner directly and white e3 I will be happy. But I don't like it if he c4. One possible sequence is: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Black gives white a wall and takes territory $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 O 4 O 0 . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 3 5 X 6 9 . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] When white extends to c10 (or thereabouts) this works nicely with d16 to develop the left side. I'm not loving this for black. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm19 Contd.. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O O O O O . O , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . X X X X O X 2 . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If the board was like this I would like this varaition as black is trying to develop the right side so white getting a strong group poking out is nice, and the top left corner is a white stone so black's wall is less effective. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6 Example of good direction for this joseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm16 Example of good direction for this joseki contd. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X 1 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 7 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 5 . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	yoyoma [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Uberdude wrote: Still thinking... 4 days for move #9 and still not decided?

Author:	Magicwand [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand
Uberdude: take much time as you like. drop me a mail when you play next move so i dont check this thread everyday. i am playing multiple ogs and dgs games so i dont really mind. i can not understand what he is thinking. it should be simple joseki.