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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #21 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


trigger(since the board is symmetrical feel free to flip the trigger)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

obs only
reasoning is above.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #22 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:31 pm 
Tengen

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Isn't the double low extension from the 4-4 point just a bit inferior?

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #23 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:50 pm 
Judan

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@hyperpape: Yes, it's a bad shape and the 3-3 is a good answer. Shame that speedchase intends to make the mistake of not pushing at s6 first. White can probably punish by turning there instead of hanging connection. If he plays the correct sequence I like black's position a lot: 2 shimaris, and a corner and white overconcentrated thickness. But that order mistake is huge, might swing the game back in white's favour.

Also his plan to then immediately reduce is greedy and bad. Let white have those points, don't give yourself a weak group. It's better to just play some big fuseki point, such as h3.


Last edited by Uberdude on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #24 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:53 pm 
Judan

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@speedchase (no idea if this is a breach of malkovich etiquette)

Beware of triggers: think about each move you play!
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #25 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Notes #11, #14, and #16 unhidden. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b9: seems as good as anything to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 W:0 B:0 Joseki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this situation the two step hane is joseki.

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #26 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:15 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . 0 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Either block side is as good. I'll compare between the two double hane josekis and the standard extension joseki if/when we get there.

I'm also pretty unsatisfied with the position. I'm wondering whether R10 @ R6 would have been a bit less uncomfortable.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #27 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Hmmm. topazg wonders whether R-10 should have been at R-06, while I wonder whether it would have been better at R-11. ;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: illluck
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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #28 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:55 pm 
Oza
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Bill Spight wrote:
Loons wrote:
A database search confirms the most territorial move around is ubiquitous; probably followed by :b7: . Not too many games with this fuseki though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...


Let me guess. Was this the widest path?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . 3 . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Was White Sakata? ;)

Edit: Unhidden.


Nope, this was...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And nope, Sakata never played this fuseki -- as White. Hashimoto Utaro played it against him once in 1959. The continuation in that game did follow your diagram above though! :blackeye:

_________________
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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

This post by ez4u was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #29 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:58 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


#1 priority: Don't die!
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #30 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:42 pm 
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speedchase,
speedchase wrote:
#1 priority: Don't die!
Sometimes in Go there are fates worse than death. :)
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #31 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:15 pm 
Lives in sente

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EdLee wrote:
speedchase,
speedchase wrote:
#1 priority: Don't die!
Sometimes in Go there are fates worse than death. :)

I understand, But now? I like the sansan invasion for the reasons a gave above, and I am sticking with it!
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #32 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:17 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, time to stop and think for the next one. I'm leaning towards a double hane, but which one?
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #33 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:56 am 
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speedchase,
speedchase wrote:
I understand, But now?
Now you're in the middle of it so I cannot tell you. :)
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #34 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:32 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #35 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:54 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've decided to take the corner. The sente sequence doesn't seem to offer as much as I'd like with regards to compensation, and it doesn't connect to my right hand side stone, which means I'll have to handle it whichever path I choose:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 C 5 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . c . . O . . . a . O X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is how I see the game progressing, and :b21: is a pain I'm going to have to deal with one way or the other. The aji of "a" is uncomfortable, threatening "b", but I've got "c" as a fall back plan if I need it. Let's see if I can come out of the fuseki at least equal.
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #36 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:35 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 800
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Rank: AGA 2kyu
Universal go server handle: speedchase
I'm going to have to think about it more but I like the idea of having :wc: sandwiched between a ponuki and a shimari.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 W:0 B:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 5 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #37 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:06 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
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Note #25 unhidden. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: topazg
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #38 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:10 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Been having a think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 C 5 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Time to be creative and create opportunities. :w22: is a key point which makes me wonder about :b21: a little bit. Not that it's bad per se, but it's not so clearly awesome for Black as I feared. :w24: is a probe I want to play if :b21: happens, but maybe not at move 24.

God, I'm getting all excited about playing Go again. This is fun!
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #39 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:17 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . O . b . . 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 6 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black could also consider taking the ponnuki on the other side. Then have to pick whether to pincer at a or extend at b. There is also the option for white to atari on top with 18 instead of connect.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase
Post #40 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:56 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
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Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
@Uberdude:
I thought with the K3 stone black can resist more harshly?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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