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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:31 pm 
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hyperpape wrote:
I don't mind, but do I get a vote?


Sure :)

Though, I think I should remove C because it's very dependent on a choice for white (and I think sansan probably better than jump up for white).
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #22 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Eh, I didn't look, it was just a joke.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #23 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:36 pm 
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I know, but it's OK to if you are interested as I don't think the choices will affect the game (you'll see the final decision anyways, and other moves don't reveal anything about strategy because they are just interesting possibility not related to each other) :)
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #24 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:50 pm 
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These all seem fascinating, but are any of them played by pros in modern times?
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #25 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:38 pm 
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jts wrote:
These all seem fascinating, but are any of them played by pros in modern times?


Option a is particularly fascinating. Depending on the position (i.e. i don't think it's valid here), this joseki has a mistake variation that requires multiple myoshu to find the strongest resistance. I have no idea how it all works now, but shaddy has it in a chinese book he picked up last year.
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #26 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:07 am 
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I would choose 'd'. I won't discuss this decision now because I don't want to make it easy for illuck if he picks one in the case of a tie ;)
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #27 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I guess it was a choice between "a" and "d". Both are interesting, but I picked "d" because while I don't remember ever playing either, I've had "a" and then the counterhane played against me a few times. I don't think I've ever seen "d" in my games, so let's try a less common one!

Also, I think "d" is also more open in terms of next choices - would be interesting to see how it affects the rest of the game.

Additionally, the fact that there exists a very nice shoulder-hit reduction on the bottom third-line stone also makes a sequence more focused towards a wall facing bottom less attractive.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #28 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:39 pm 
Judan

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No point hiding this I suppose...

I was a bit surprised to see the most normal (and simple) move not suggested, at e. With a, the normal continuation is the cash-grabbing block. There's some coverage of this and other choices in this lower side shape after the approach in chapter 10 of "A Dictionary of Modern Fuseki: The Korean Style".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . e . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #29 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:45 pm 
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@Uber, yeah, I wanted to try some less common responses :p The common joseki makes me want to yawn :p
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #30 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:19 pm 
Tengen

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A whole lot of thinking, not much to show for it. Two things I probably won't play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't say why, but nothing about this appeals to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I'd rather just double approach first. Playing the :w1: - :b2: exchange just hurts White's chances here, I think. Either of the standard jump into the corner and blocking josekis seem locally worse for Black, and white can always come back for ;w1: if desired.

Diagrams suck, and you people with your hide tags are driving me mad!

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #31 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:39 am 
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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 2 . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll be out of town over the weekend, I think I'll have internet access, but I'm not sure about that, and I also don't know how much time I'll have.

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #32 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:43 am 
Gosei
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I've never liked the 55 jump in these positions, I always attach on top of one or the other approaches. It just feels like you're exerting greater control over the direction, the 55 seems noncommittal.

Not sure if this is good on the board, but i might try something like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . 3 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . 5 2 . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #33 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:41 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No worries, there's no rush at all :)

Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #34 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:51 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
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Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll take care of the easy part, and leave the thinking for later.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #35 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:46 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
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Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 8 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
You atari, I connect, that's how this game works, right?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not trigger:
I did some database study over the weekend. The pattern on the bottom edge is quite rare. Even if you only look at the two black stones, you don't get a lot of hits. So far, the main effect of my database work is to make me feel comfortable in what I'm playing and not second guess it as much. Not one move I've played has been anything but my first instinct.

Assuming he doesn't atari, which I don't think he should, then there's the question of how to play on the bottom. I'll play the hane-connect sequence, and then my response depends on whether he plays a solid connection or a looser move. In either case, I'll have to decide how to handle his side.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #36 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:45 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 9 . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure if I should atari first. It would make white's fourth line move more sente later and I don't really gain anything because I have to come back and protect anyways.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #37 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #38 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:47 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered atari and then block on the left side because I thought white will follow with a cut and then I can fight with my support on bottom or just nosehit to take outside. But then I realized that white will clamp instead of cut, so I'd do better to retain the atari and block first? I don't feel like the bottom is particularly important at the moment anyways.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #39 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:07 pm 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Sente is now very important (duh). I'm actually tempted to play immediately on the bottom, and see what he can do to hurt me on top. On interesting point is that in many of the lines I'm considering, who plays first at a matters a lot. It's obviously forcing if black plays there, while if white plays there, it's sorta almost maybe kinda Gote No Sente.

More to come.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #40 Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:56 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Easier to decide than I thought. I really don't like the lines that come out of ignoring to play on the bottom. If he double approaches and I attach on top, the extra stone at C11 gives me a horrible result. If I play the diagonal and he plays the corner, it might not be bad, but I wonder if he can slide to D18 and get a good result.

There's no move at the bottom that gets rid of his aji, so I feel comfortable playing here. And if he takes sente to play on the bottom, I'll have a target.

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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