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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #221 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:48 pm 
Gosei

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Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
I see a ko right now ... and I have a lot of ways to use it, I think ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O a O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 3 5 C |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , 6 2 7 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 4 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, do I prefer this, or should I immediately cut at a?

I'm going to have to think a bit about this.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #222 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:45 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Loons wrote:
Also @Kirby
What were your thoughts (however briefly) on this? I thought some of the forcing moves might be useful.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 6 5 X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Loons:
Well, playing that way first let's me get the marked white move in sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X O X X W . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O a O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But if I wanted that move in sente, I'd just as soon play it to begin with:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X 6 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can tenuki from the right group (even with that move as sente) - and that's what I really wanted to do.

So as a compromise, I figured, I might as well save the marked stone, if I'm getting gote anyway:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . W . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now that I've played gote, I'm alive on the right. The bad part is, he can attack my group in the center, now.

I had really wanted to get sente to help the center group. I would probably have started out with a move like this if I had:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, I'm not really sure what's going to happen. Marcus gets to play in the center first, so my success will depend on saving the center stones after being the second person to play in that area...

That's what I'm thinking, anyway. I could be wrong. After all, why did I get myself into this mess in the first place?

:-D

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #223 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:06 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
@Loons:
Now that I've posted to you, I started thinking about the right more, and maybe I'm not even alive there for sure :-p

I was thinking of this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But black can do this, of course:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O 9 1 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think my reading is pretty weak right now... I keep hallucinating.

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #224 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:41 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: :black: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 9 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok ... I've read as far as I can read, and playing at G14 immediately here doesn't guarantee I will kill the center stones. On the other hand, I will dfinitely gain from a ko on the right, whether by killing the group or with a decent sized ko threat ... there may be another possible ko in the upper left, too ... but I bet Kirby will sacrifice a couple stones to prevent that one ...

Also, I should still be able to harass the center stones for a bit more profit ... maybe this game isn't quite lost yet ... but I'm not sure ... I'll try counting again soon.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #225 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:21 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 0 . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Resignation is coming soon, probably.

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #226 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:59 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: :black: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks like it results in a ko as well.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #227 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:59 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . 2 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This game is so frustrating to me. In my last game against Marcus, I messed up near the end game with a blunder. I wonder if the same thing has happened again. Maybe I underestimate him.

I guess he is a better player (person?) than me. :-(

Anyway, I want to fight this ko. It's the only choice I have, I think. The other thing to consider might be this, but it doesn't work, since black can play the last move in the sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O 2 O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 4 6 5 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 3 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X X 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #228 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:57 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: :black: :w4:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O 3 C |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The ko begins ... I have some nice big threats in the upper left ... but will it be enough to resurrect my chances?
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #229 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:02 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 4 . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #230 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:20 pm 
Gosei
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From my games against Marcus (a long time ago!) His late midgame/early endgame were far and away the strongest part of his game (at least he admits to some reading now!).

Hopefully I haven't jinxed Marcus' next move by saying that!

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My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #231 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:14 pm 
Gosei

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KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X 5 O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nice local threat. I missed that line of play ... I'm gonna have to play tight, and hope I don't miss too many lines.
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Offline kex
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #232 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:54 am 
Dies with sente
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For observers
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X 5 O a X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X b |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Am I stupid, or what do I not see? Shouldn't black just connect at b? 25 and a are miai to make the eye false...
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #233 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:59 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

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KGS: Aphelion02
I think Q13 is sente to capture the P13 stones
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #234 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:11 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . 6 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nobody sees this move coming, huh...

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #235 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:18 am 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Marcus does not even have to win the ko. He can lose the ko like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 2 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and still win the game.

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Offline ethanb
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #236 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:27 am 
Lives in gote

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Rank: AGA 2d
IGS: ethanb
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Marcus does not even have to win the ko. He can lose the ko like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 2 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and still win the game.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . 4 . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 2 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...are you sure?

(for the sake of clarity, M14 might be a better move; this one just makes the possibility I'm talking about more obvious at first glance)
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #237 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:44 am 
Gosei

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Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: :b1: :w4:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . 7 O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I believe this is the best choice of threats ... if White ignores, he gives me a lot of different ways to attack:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: :b2: :w5:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . a . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . 1 O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . 3 C X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O b O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O C |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 2 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #238 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:51 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . 8 O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #239 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:07 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O 9 C |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #240 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:41 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O 9 C |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 0 . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...

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