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Offline EdLee
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Post #241 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:18 am 
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:w30: does not look big enough, but Marcus may even choose to reply, if he thinks he has enough threats of his own.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #242 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:00 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not big enough ... what's Kirby's next move? I suspect K9, actually ... which provides a second exit for Kirby's middle group ... I would be disappointed if Kirby simply atari'd my lone stone ... that's way too small, I think ...
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #243 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:57 am 
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for obs only:
white was ahead by too many points so that ko threat might be enough to win :scratch:

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #244 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:10 am 
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I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #245 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:23 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

can you explain how black and white have equal territory?

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #246 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:47 am 
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It's annoying losing a group like that, but maybe I can make this a close game, still. I think I was ahead by a lot before losing this group on the right, so I might be able to narrow the gap, even though I was captured... Maybe.

I can't afford any more mistakes, though.

I could play something like this, and I don't think I'd have a problem living:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, if black responds locally, it makes it a bit harder to attack the marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . O . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . B . B . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . B . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I will have to think about this a bit, and try to maintain a positive attitude.

...

I remember a game I played awhile ago - I think it was my second go tournament. I was playing as a 5k, and playing against someone that entered as 4k. I was surprised at how strong they seemed, and I was pretty certain that they were winning near the end of the game. Then a move came to me where I took a risk and put my stones in danger - but I was able to live and win the game.

I don't know if the same thing will happen here, but I cannot afford to make any mistakes. I've already paid a lot for my last set of mistakes. I need to push forward, and catch black's weakness.

It's harder to grab the flow when it gets later in the game... But I don't think that it's impossible. I think there's still time for me on this board.

I have to play not based on my feelings, but based on reading. I need to not just talk, but also have action. I need to find the flow.

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #247 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm 
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All these hidden comments ... they're making me a bit nervous ... did I miss anything?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #248 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm 
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for obs only:
below is what i would play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X 3 . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X 2 . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 4 X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #249 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm 
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I think it's resign time.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #250 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:42 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
...
can you explain how black and white have equal territory?

Both of my original estimates were about 5 too high:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X W , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X C |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . C C C C X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X W C X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W C W X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W W X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X W C W X |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . X X C W W W W W C |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . C C C C C X X C |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . C C C X C C C C |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . C X X C C O C C |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . W X . X X X C C |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black = 65

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | C C C C C C . . . . . . . . C C C C C |
$$ | C C C C O O . . . . . . . . C C C O O |
$$ | C C C . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | C C B O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | C O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | C C B O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | C C C C C O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | C C C O C C C O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | C C C C C B O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | C C C O C C C . . . . . . . C C O O . |
$$ | C C C C C C C . . . . . C C C C C C C |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White bottom right 9 + bottom left 31 + upper left 22 + upper right 8 = 70.

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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #251 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Joaz:

I would count black's top as solid territory. There's about 10 points there
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #252 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:38 am 
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I haven't forgotten about this game; I want to play a little bit more on my game against Chew before continuing here, though. That's because the blunder I made will need my full attention to diagnose... ;-)

I think Marcus deserves that. Besides, the game will be more interesting that way.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #253 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X 2 . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here goes nothing... I need to focus here...

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #254 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here goes nothing ...
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #255 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm 
Oza
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They're so funny :D
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #256 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:04 pm 
Judan
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Move along. There's nothing to see here.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #257 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:37 am 
Honinbo

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Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . 4 . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Still striving to catch back up.


You make me so curious, Joaz...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #258 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:07 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
for obs only:
i am 99.99% sure that white is in better position...
IMO black's last move was useless dame filling move.

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The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #259 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:11 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 350
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 33
Rank: 4 dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I say Forget those stones and go for the kill!

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Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Post #260 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:30 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
I'm sure all of these hidden posts are laughing at why I have not resigned yet, but hey... I've got to try to come back, don't I? It seems that's how I got in this situation to begin with.

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