Life In 19x19 :: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS

This is a very slow game. Both of us are playing conservatively. I'm inclined to follow the proverb 'Urgent before big', but there seem to be no urgent points.

There are five groups, none of which suggest urgent plays. Four of them are multi-stone groups, not easily attacked, and none readily capable of making large territory with one move. The fifth, his upper left hoshi stone, is exposed on both sides, so I'm in no hurry to do something there.

Having talked myself out of any sense of urgency, I'm looking for the biggest move. The top and right side are the two obvious candidates. The general decision is surprising easy. If I take the top, he can take the side; but if I take the side, he doesn't have an easy play along the top:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 I have three comfortable continuations. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . 5 . . . 4 . a . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Reasonable extensions for both. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 3 , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One I have the general area decided upon, the exact spot depends upon how far I can go without leaving him room for a comfortable extension.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Too cramped for white. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Having talked myself out of any sense of urgency, I'm looking for the biggest move. The top and right side are the two obvious candidates. The general decision is surprising easy. If I take the top, he can take the side; but if I take the side, he doesn't have an easy play along the top:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 I have three comfortable continuations. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . 5 . . . 4 . a . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . 8 5 . . . 4 . 7 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think I would feel comfortable with this as Black. My only comfort is that I don't know where White should play next. But that also means that I don't know how Black should counter that play...

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

...
No choice here. Letting him slide outside compromises 13.

But he knew that, right? So why is he probing? :scratch:

Sigh. I've been a bit myopic here. He isn't asking what I'm planning on the right side. He knows that already, as I have made my intentions clear with 13. He is thinking about the top side.

He has one stone in place to help invade the corner. The one variation that I can remember goes like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X 3 1 9 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He won't play that now, of course - or any of the other similar variations - for I would come away with sente and use it for a good extension on the top side.

Instead, he will let the aji of that stone wait, maintaining the option of using it if he gets the top side, something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Location of circled stones is not exact $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . | $$ | . B W . . . W . . W . . 8 . X 3 1 9 . | $$ | . B . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then the influence of 6 and 8 is wasted. ( Indeed, after a push at Q16 and subsequent cut, they may become targets )

However, if the top side is handled differently, such that he has stones that would be hurt by strong black stones facing west - like 6 and 8 in the diagram above - he will settle for trying to live with this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Location of circled stones is not exact $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . B . . W . . W . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't remember how that variation goes. I think that I can figure it out on the fly if I have to.

The choice is from a and b.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The second doesn't look so bad. For example

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think it is close to equal. However :b17:

looks a little bit strange to me so I want to gain some advantage. Therefore I play :w18:

though I can'd read it to the point where I can make a clear judgement. In other words I now take (greedily) the large corner and want a) not be enclosed in that corner comletely; b) defend against the attack on the lonely :w16:

stone somehow.

They say that the evaluation is the most difficult part of the game. So it can easily be that the advantage is at the diagram above and not after :w18:

. Or it can be that there is no advantage at all.

I also considered G15 briefly but didn't like it because when black invade the 3-3 and sacrifice :b17:

G15 looks weird.

Didn't have any ideas how to answer this peep and stay light. And I don't want to play too close to the upper right corner because I'm afraid to lose the possibility to live there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 1 2 . 5 . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here the peep is also annoying but white has several options to choose from

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a O c 3 . . . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 1 b d e . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If we simply run downward I think white will be OK.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi Go_Japan ( Ninja'd by W. ) Nothing against the top, or (g) F17. I was just looking at lower left corner ; nice to hear Bill's feeling to tenuki. Actually, the top is wider than the left. My guess is Bill doesn't like to have to invade the left and suffer -- only my guess, though. From the top right shimari, current theory says the right side is bigger than the top ( until AlphaGo says otherwise ). After the right side, I wonder if the top and the left are miai, or if the top is slightly bigger. * * * So far, very peaceful. After the last big points taken, the fights start...

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Hi Go_Japan, Go_Japan wrote: g would be my first instinct besides a, but neither of you mentioned it. Why not? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . g . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . \| $$ \| . . e , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . W . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . b . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ----------------------------------------[/go] Oh, surely it is playable. But if you are going to play at "g", why not play at "b" first?

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Q9. Details later.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Q9? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] My sealed move. Also if Joaz meant Q-11.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Q9. Details later. I was trying to get a move posted before white went to bed. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] This is a very slow game. Both of us are playing conservatively. I'm inclined to follow the proverb 'Urgent before big', but there seem to be no urgent points. There are five groups, none of which suggest urgent plays. Four of them are multi-stone groups, not easily attacked, and none readily capable of making large territory with one move. The fifth, his upper left hoshi stone, is exposed on both sides, so I'm in no hurry to do something there. Having talked myself out of any sense of urgency, I'm looking for the biggest move. The top and right side are the two obvious candidates. The general decision is surprising easy. If I take the top, he can take the side; but if I take the side, he doesn't have an easy play along the top: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 I have three comfortable continuations. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . c . . 5 . . . 4 . a . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Reasonable extensions for both. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . 3 , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] One I have the general area decided upon, the exact spot depends upon how far I can go without leaving him room for a comfortable extension. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Too cramped for white. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

#264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13687	Page 3 of 10

Author:	hyperpape [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Having talked myself out of any sense of urgency, I'm looking for the biggest move. The top and right side are the two obvious candidates. The general decision is surprising easy. If I take the top, he can take the side; but if I take the side, he doesn't have an easy play along the top: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 I have three comfortable continuations. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . c . . 5 . . . 4 . a . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . c . 8 5 . . . 4 . 7 . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I don't think I would feel comfortable with this as Black. My only comfort is that I don't know where White should play next. But that also means that I don't know how Black should counter that play...

Author:	TegaiS [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If Black takes the corner I will be happy to play at the right side immediately. If R15 then the plan is K17 to prevent the double wings.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . a . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 7 X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . \| $$ \| . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] was my first impulse. Then - is a possible continuation. The result, however, is that looks silly. And so will the top right corner if White plays at "a". What if Black pulls back to 16? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] White will extend on the top side. TegaiS wrote: If R15 then the plan is K17 to prevent the double wings. Then looks reasonable. (Although Joaz has said that he will approach from the top.) On balance, I think that the exchange, - is good for Black, mainly because it makes the distance between the Black corner and only 5 spaces, so it turns into a not unreasonable extension.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] No choice here. Letting him slide outside compromises 13. But he knew that, right? So why is he probing?

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Joaz Banbeck wrote: ... No choice here. Letting him slide outside compromises 13. But he knew that, right? So why is he probing? Sigh. I've been a bit myopic here. He isn't asking what I'm planning on the right side. He knows that already, as I have made my intentions clear with 13. He is thinking about the top side. He has one stone in place to help invade the corner. The one variation that I can remember goes like this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X 3 1 9 . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] He won't play that now, of course - or any of the other similar variations - for I would come away with sente and use it for a good extension on the top side. Instead, he will let the aji of that stone wait, maintaining the option of using it if he gets the top side, something like this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Location of circled stones is not exact $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . \| $$ \| . B W . . . W . . W . . 8 . X 3 1 9 . \| $$ \| . B . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . \| $$ \| . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Then the influence of 6 and 8 is wasted. ( Indeed, after a push at Q16 and subsequent cut, they may become targets ) However, if the top side is handled differently, such that he has stones that would be hurt by strong black stones facing west - like 6 and 8 in the diagram above - he will settle for trying to live with this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Location of circled stones is not exact $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . B . . W . . W . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . \| $$ \| . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I don't remember how that variation goes. I think that I can figure it out on the fly if I have to.

Author:	TegaiS [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Prevents the double wing formation.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
OK, now there is an urgent move, or at least an urgent area. He could make a corner with double wings by playing E17. So I must make an approach against D16. Current favorite candidates are F18 or G18. Gotta think.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Comments later.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Joaz Banbeck wrote: ...Comments later. As indicated before, I intend to use my right side stones as an anvil, and push his upper side stones against it. If he tries to activate his lone invader in the upper right, my stones over there will become stronger while dealing with it. I expected him to play low, not high. As he is more mobile now, I have to be faster. So I don't have time to be kicked and to answer that kick. If he plays E17 now, I can ignore it. Eventually, I hope to move southward to about G14 or thereabouts and then pivot westward to reduce his territorial potential on the west side. If he goes to the other side of his hoshi stone - with something like C14 or D14 - I'll probably slide under at D18.

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Author:	Go_Japan [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Joaz Banbeck wrote: ...Comments later. As indicated before, I intend to use my right side stones as an anvil, and push his upper side stones against it. If he tries to activate his lone invader in the upper right, my stones over there will become stronger while dealing with it. I expected him to play low, not high. As he is more mobile now, I have to be faster. So I don't have time to be kicked and to answer that kick. If he plays E17 now, I can ignore it. Eventually, I hope to move southward to about G14 or thereabouts and then pivot westward to reduce his territorial potential on the west side. If he goes to the other side of his hoshi stone - with something like C14 or D14 - I'll probably slide under at D18. Joaz, you need to hide your comments.

Author:	skydyr [ Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Personally, I think I would prefer to play here, because it is somewhat wider, and because P17 makes the top side smaller. If white kicks, black can make a decent extension still. If white pincers, black can dive into the corner and take sente to reduce the outside. Finally, if white just plays a knight's or one space jump defense, black can just slide and extend, or extend directly if he fears a white pincer particularly. With the game move, white's K16 stone still has room for a base with N17, and I don't think it will be fruitful for black to play multiple moves to attack one high stone on a smaller side while white makes gains on the left. Other opinions?

Author:	TegaiS [ Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] The choice is from a and b. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . a . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] The second doesn't look so bad. For example Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 4 . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I think it is close to equal. However looks a little bit strange to me so I want to gain some advantage. Therefore I play though I can'd read it to the point where I can make a clear judgement. In other words I now take (greedily) the large corner and want a) not be enclosed in that corner comletely; b) defend against the attack on the lonely stone somehow. They say that the evaluation is the most difficult part of the game. So it can easily be that the advantage is at the diagram above and not after . Or it can be that there is no advantage at all. I also considered G15 briefly but didn't like it because when black invade the 3-3 and sacrifice G15 looks weird.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] It is a dark evening here. Whatever moonlight might have touched my board has been been blocked by racing clouds. Strange noises come from outside - no, wait, that may be inside, just down the hall. If I close my eyes and listen closely, I imagine that I can hear tuneless works being sung..."killing is a joy, killing is a pleasure, white is so lonely, there in the mid..." And then there is a hideous screech. It is definitely inside. The next words are clear, in a menacing voice: "J15 or you will not see sunrise!"

Author:	TegaiS [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Didn't have any ideas how to answer this peep and stay light. And I don't want to play too close to the upper right corner because I'm afraid to lose the possibility to live there. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 1 2 . 5 . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Here the peep is also annoying but white has several options to choose from Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . a O c 3 . . . , X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . 1 b d e . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If we simply run downward I think white will be OK.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Huh?? What? Why can't I push through? I must think. Or wait a year for advice.