115 - robinz v. 1986

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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i thought about the hane on the other side but that's playing close his strength. Besides there is more space on this side. Now lets see how do i make the best of the stones i have hmmn.
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Well, as I expected. On seeing his move, it suddenly occurred to me that the crosscut might be good. But it's beyond my ability to read - some lines I saw looked good enough for me that I almost played it (notably in that all ladders towards the upper-left are working for me), but others looked considerably more hairy. I really have no idea what would happen, so let's stick with the relatively simple (although it will still be tricky for me) line I indicated earlier.
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i hate passing sente on.. oh well i was thinking of some creative stuff to do keep it but I'm not that fancy just yet and now is not the time to be trying new moves, if i was black i would love the chance to punish a overplay right about now so i cant give him the pleasure

its up to him now i have been thinking about this 3 stones and i have room to run, but running is not profitable it gives him a chance to enlarge his framework, but i will find some use for them, its on my mind but right now i can just treat them as light,

if i would have played q7 trying use a hanging connection he would just peeped it and if i leave these stones as is he could cross cut and i would have wasted two moves and would have been better off just passing, so i chose the solid connection, be as gentle as a lamb when I'm in the enemies areas of influence
standing still means going backwards
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Hidden until right side completely settled:
:b31: feels submissive and wrong direction.
Another idea -- if W tries to run out (a) direction, B has things like (b) waiting for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks like the most solid move I have - firstly securing my lower-right group and giving it some more eyespace, and also at the expense of his group's. Had he got to slide into S6 or thereabouts I wouldn't be too happy. I guess he'll probably now descend, to separate my groups and later threaten them with monkey jumps - but crucially, it won't give him any eyespace (I think I'll still have enough, especially as I have R2 if absolutely necessary - it shouldn't be though; I also have access to the centre). Then I'll be able to attack properly from the outside (I'm thinking of moves like O10.

He could also start running for the centre now, letting me connect under in gote and being satisfied with a light reduction. If so, I'll think then about whether just connecting is best or if I have some more severe attack - but I won't be unhappy. I really don't think he's going to tenuki...
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

For beginners, otherwise hidden until right side completely settled:
:b35: is very very bad. This cannot be emphasized enough, so here it is again:
:b35: is very very bad.
It is very broken shape for B (another nickname is the "toothpaste" shape, obvious from the picture :)):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$----------------
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . O . O O O . |
$$. . . X X X O . |
$$. X . . . X X . |
$$. . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . , X . . |
$$. . . . O B . . |
$$. . . . @ @ @ . |
$$. . . . . B . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . O . . X . . |
$$. . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------[/go]
Last edited by EdLee on Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

hehe, I am now terribly nervous that your post is along the lines of "that move was totally wrong, and even a beginner should be able to see that" :-?
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

robinz, you can read it soon enough. :)
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


36: threatens the eye space on the group in the bottom right
37: is the counter aiming at atari of the stone
38: protect
39: contain

I had a much longer post explaining my move but the computer restarted and i lost it this is pretty much the gist of it though

i thought about some other sequence but i ruled them out because this sequence threatens a very important group for him and i can also take advantage of the stones in that area to keep black in
the corner
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure if it would be better to play O10 (or thereabouts) first. I prefer this because it helps to secure my own group - but the downside is that white might ignore it and start to run with the 3 stones now. I don't think he will, though, or this move doesn't make a lot of sense. Note that, if he does protect with S8 or S9, I will ignore that to attack from centre. (I'm actually also slightly concerned by the aji of his possible peep at R5, but there's not a lot I can do about that now.)
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


following the plan in my previous post, I'm actually thinking about
what is his plan so i can best foil it, i still have some left behind moves to make around the whole board so it really depends on what he does with his sente its still mine right now though... i love sente
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, that surprises me on all counts. I'm no longer concerned about that peep, for one. Not that the situation is yet comfortable for me, but this strikes me as a thankyou move.
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emeraldemon
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by emeraldemon »

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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is the end of my planned sequence, now its his sente, his next move will determine where i play,

eh, right now I'm just using my imagination playing out different variations in my head to see what would best fit my board position, so i can have some ideas for later, i have a few thoughts, lets see what happens
standing still means going backwards
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Aphelion
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by Aphelion »

robinz:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Are the marked black stones doing more work than the marked white stones?
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