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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #41 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:59 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So white is starting a fight, which should not be unexpected because I didn't see a good result for white otherwise. I feel it's a bit early for this particular move, though. There are 4 groups directly involved:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . M X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Groups 2 and 3 are relatively strong in this fight. Group 2 still has an invasion under the 4-4 stone to contend with at some point, and group 3 has aji at the marked point. Groups 1 and 4 are a single stone each, so they're quite weak but can also be treated lightly to get a good result somewhere else.

I think my ideal plan for this fight is to lean with group 3 onto group 4 to build strength and make that group alive. This will help with the coming fight when I move the F3 stone out by preventing white from threatening this group. My second goal is to preserve the aji under the 3-3 point so that I can invade there later.

Here are some thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , 7 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Normally, the purpose of 1 is to sacrifice the stone to connect under, giving white a ponnuki on the outside. It's a bit of a desperation move to stay connected, or something to play when white already has a lot of influence nearby, so that more doesn't help. Pulling back with 5 is a horrible horrible move you should never play, because white gets strong and captures half the group. In this case, however, black can treat that stone lightly, because it is secondary to the main extension down the side, and because by sacrificing it, white hasn't yet secured anything.

I've hidden the followups below in the interests of space. I don't intend to play them immediately, because black can be forced into gote, and there is bigger stuff on the board.

The other question is what to do if white hanes on the other side:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

part 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Followup
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 1 3 4 . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Followup variant 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 1 3 4 9 . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O 0 O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Followup variant 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B 1 2 . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 0 3 O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #42 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:11 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Assuming he's going to cut, this looks like the best way to attack the central left side which is my primary target:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he doesn't cut, he just has more broken shape. I think I can be happy with the following result:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #43 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:39 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #44 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:53 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll gladly take that. Black appears to have suffered somewhat in that exchange simply due to cutting off C14 so solidly.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #45 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:13 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #46 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:19 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #47 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm... that also went according to plan. This always leaves me wondering if my opponent is going along because my plan is not very good. I didn't mention it before, but the ladder from white cutting below :b3: 3 just misses the white stone on J4, so I may have some decisions to make later. I don't think that :b3: is terribly important, though, so I could just sacrifice it for forcing moves to strengthen the black group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . M . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . M . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm debating a bit between the two marked points. I would like to take the top right first, as it is the last big move of the opening. After that, the middle game should start in earnest. As I discussed earlier, it is if not sente, at least threatening.

On the other hand, if black comes out, white doesn't have time to take the big point until the lower left is somewhat settled.

Enh... let's go with the tedomari

I think white might play one of these locally, or tenuki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #48 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:14 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, that's pretty big. I'll probe here to see what Black does, before following up with some of my plans

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #49 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:37 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a classic probe of the shimari to see if black wants to make corner territory or take the outside. There are 4 or so local options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . a b . X . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . d c . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


A and D generally lead to white sacrificing the probe to make shape with forcing moves. C claims the outside while giving white the option of living inside with a tripod group. B claims the corner and reduces aji so that white can't force as easily.

I mentioned earlier that I thought black 35 removed some of the aji from the probe, so I'm going to play the solid option B. I think white will have a hard time getting much out of that stone due to the additional close support, and if white does make it live, I will welcome the thickness to make a big top right moyo.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #50 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:56 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
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Liked others: 1589
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, now to try and collect some points. This increases the size of the corner directly, and either allows me to swallow up that stone, or alternatively he may choose to run. In which case, I hope to reduce the left side's influence and gain enough strength to invade the lower side as well.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #51 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:12 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Good! White is spending moves removing some of his aji, which means I have sente again. These are all points I would like to get in the near future, though I doubt I can get them all:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . M . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . M . . . . M . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X M . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . M . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . M . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . M . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's my current plan:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O 0 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X . 5 7 8 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . 4 3 6 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . B . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 0 9 O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X W 6 5 3 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 4 1 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #52 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 0 . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Really? That was an unexpected response...

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #53 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:57 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was my first feeling, but it starts a giant fight and weakens black's bottom right group. I think black is ahead on the board right now, so complications are not what is needed.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . M 0 B W . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 9 O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 1 2 6 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 5 . 3 4 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This isn't independantly alive:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . W . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O 9 0 B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 4 3 7 8 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 5 2 1 6 M . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems to be the best that I can get, but at least it's sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O . . . . . . X . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 6 5 3 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 1 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #54 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:13 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll take that as forcing for now, and play in this corner whilst it's there

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #55 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:26 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
I just noticed my diagram had an error, so here's a correction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Does that affect your choice of move?

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #56 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:27 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
No :)

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #57 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:32 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Didn't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I briefly considered blocking on the other side to be able to attack that side group with a placement, but that seems rather foolish a trade. It's a bit small now, but white owes a move on the left bottom at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #58 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:45 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #59 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:57 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like we skipped over the middle game entirely.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #60 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:04 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , 6 . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O , . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think White's doing fairly well for points now. We both want to get back to the bottom - I'm particularly aiming at the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , O . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 6 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O 4 5 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 9 2 3 X 8 . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . X 1 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , O . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 5 4 2 X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 3 X 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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