#190 - topazg vs magicwand

Magicwand · **#41**

was it a overplay??? no!
i thought about other options and didnt like them.
option 1
very easy to stablize black group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . 8 9 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . 0 7 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

option 2
same...too easy for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X 0 X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . 1 . 8 . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

since i already have influence...i can get away with this funny move...
more influence i build...my influence will grow exponentally.

EdLee · **#42**

topazg · **#43**

Initial reactions are obvious:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 b . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . a 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It's a contact play, and ignoring it with his stones around sounds like a good path to pain. "b" I don't particularly like. It's splitting White from his corner stone, but that's a big gap and the stone is on the 4th line, so there's nothing severe enough about it, and it doesn't get any points. "a" on the other hand starts to make points, settles my group, and allows a really large corner slide:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So this is winning comfortably out of those two choices. I toyed with some other ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . b . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These were the main two, being prepared to sac :b26:

for attacking :w21:

in the hope there's still plenty of aji left in the corner. But, it feels convoluted and could get complex, as well as potentially giving magicwand a really big lower right corner. The whole reason for considering alternatives was because I didn't want to give magicwand thickness again, but I can't really avoid that. I think my purpose instead should be to gain enough profit that the thickness is insufficient to catch up the points difference. I think I'm pulling a fairly decent points lead right now, if I can extend that further, and keep my groups stable, I can turn the game into "don't let magicwand make too many points" which is more in my comfort zone.

Will post a move tomorrow.

topazg · **#44**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I'm set. This offers much more stability to Black - it's not 4th line territory despite appearances because of the low position of :w21:

, but I should get some points from it. To be honest, I can't see how this position can favour White even locally, let alone globally:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Which makes me suspicious that maybe White is planning on omitting :w29:

, and using the aji of :w21:

to resist after I hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 0 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , a 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hoping that the cut at "a" is now harder for Black to resist with :w21:

on the board. Thing is, I'm not convinced, and I think this could be even worse for White, but magicwand must have a plan, and he does like the whole "tenuki for seizing initiative" thing, so I'm keeping my eyes out for something like this.

Magicwand · **#45**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#46**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · **#47**

Black has around 32 points. White has a moyo on the left with lots of potential.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm26 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My feeling is the two options, relatively evaluated by mw and topazg.

If white calmly takes a corner, both players have a weak group but black's has a base (open on one side). Topazg's preference for playing high de-emphasises settling locally. :w29:

seems natural to me. My concern in this shape would be how well black eg. 'a' works, anyway I don't like having a stone without a base. So the next option.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm26 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . 4 . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . 3 . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This has very good feeling to me, both black :b26:

and the marked stone are undercut. However black has three corners, a conventionally good game for black.
I would choose this way as white, because with h3 settled, white can blithely build his moyo later.
Kicking just for fun seems misguided to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm26 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . B . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . 2 . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think magicwand explained his choice well. To add a few words, he's concentrating on building support for his moyo on the left (if this seems really strange to topazg, it might surprise him later). Taking a(nother) local loss at first is a bit too ballsy for me. It annoys me that :b26:

is less of a bad move this way (compared to the last variation).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm26 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 3 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Edit: Notwithstanding any secret plans by mw

Magicwand · **#48**

topazg · **#49**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#50**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#51**

Loons,

Loons wrote:

Black has around 32 points. White has a moyo on the left with lots of potential.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm26 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I wouldn't say W's moyo on the left has "lots of potential". It's OK -- not very scary.
The following is pretty scary:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#52**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Tricky. This is what was worrying me. My reading suggests the lower atari simply doesn't work well for White, as it defeats the purpose of the previous moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now what? White has nothing.

So, he can only plan on the other side. Here's the messy connection I read previously:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O a . 9 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , b X X 7 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 8 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But after "a"? Just... yuck. What a nice result for White. I might get sente from "b" to play on the right side, but even that's not sure. I think I shouldn't have played the hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . 4 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 9 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This way he now has to protect his stones. It's a bit crude, but giving White some points in exchange for having a target to attack seems better. Now we're here, I need to read this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . 9 8 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X 7 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . a . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I just don't think I can do this. I'll need to be really careful. Either way, White's done nicely out of this exchange, better than I should have allowed.

Magicwand · **#53**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#54**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#55**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#56**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 8 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I take it he didn't like the complicated nonsense in my last hide tag. Oh well, I'm completely alive, connected, and in very acceptable shape. This is fine by me. I guess he's going to play the atari and then approach the top right. This however is another few points in the bag. I think White's going to have to create a big fight at some point. Looking earlier, I'm still not sure whether my move along the top side was too slow. The thing is, I really didn't want magicwand to get this position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . W . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sealing my corner in and giving him both approaches in the top right with positive chances of a nice development. In the current position, the top side is more my playground than White's. So not only do I have points at the moment, but it's hard for White to prevent giving me some more up there later. As I see it, the key areas of the board are w, x, y and z below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . w . . . . w . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X w . , . . w . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . x . x . . . . . . . . z . z | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , y . y . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . x . x . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . y . y . . . z . z | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X . 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These areas will probably dictate the outcome of the game now. I played at the top to pre-emptively deal with "w" and "x", transferring the balance of power there to "in my favour" and "close to parity" (respectively) as opposed to White getting there first and having a big balance of power advantage in both. His unusual M5 gives him a strong stake in "y", and this sequence gives him a strong stake in "z" too. So if he does play the approach, I think I need to pincer and challenge him for those areas. I'm happy conceding the top right corner in favour of neutralising "y" and "z", particularly as that will have an impact on "x" too.

I hope that provides some insights into some of my strategic decision making / thoughts

topazg · **#57**

Some further thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm39 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . B . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X 2 X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With the marked stone, I'm relatively happy now looking at this pincer. If it was a White stone, this would worry me a bit:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm43 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 9 . 3 1 7 . | $$ | . X O X . . W . . , . . . a 4 X 2 5 . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . 0 O . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X 2 X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now White playing at "a" feels profitable, and White has sente to do so. Because I don't think this is a particularly viable way to play here (losing potential on the right without much compensation on top), I'm suspicious the game may develop as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm39 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . 0 . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . 9 . 5 . 3 . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . 8 . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X 2 X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now White playing at "a" could get very interesting. I need to do some reading of this before committing to the pincer, but my first glance suggests I may be able to fight simply:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm49 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . X . X . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . O 3 O . O . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Either way, this is going to be the last really important battle in the fuseki.

Magicwand · **#58**

Atari and Q13

topazg · **#59**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O . . W O . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . X X B X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Will think about it, but just putting up the board position for everyone for now

Marcus · **#60**

@Magicwand:

#190 - topazg vs magicwand

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