just a word of advice to sdks
when you are playing high dan player with handycap stones... give them much respect as possible and beat them using that handycap.
my opponent is trying to squeeze some bright ideas out of his brain but that appears to be a mistake and giving me a chance to overcome 3 stone handy.

basically..if you fight stronger players then you lose. try to avoid fight if you can.

I mostly agree with Magicwand that Joaz is trying to be too fancy and giving MW a chance to complicate which is what he wants. That area of the board is totally not the focus, the cap on the right side is super hot. Joaz absolutely must get sente to return there but that is far from clear. What he says about not dying if white plays another move might be true but misses the point: if he has to make white strong to escape it sucks. he should run out because then white has 2 weak groups and black is attacking white rather than vice versa.

But what MW said about avoiding fights I kinda disagree with, Welcome fights where you have a big advantage (which you often do with the handicap stones). Submissive play is the greatest sin of handicap Go. But avoid fights where white has the advantage, like this foolish adventure Joaz has embarked on.

Personally, I liked Joaz's spirit in his last move. As I respect U.Dude's and MW's strenghts, I read their comments and reconsidered my position... I think they are right that Joaz's last play was not really where the action is.

But being kyuish myself, I would respond to Joaz's last move passively, and let him have his way with me.

So, I commend Joaz for playing a move that would have gotten me

Well, MW is determined not to play the least bit submissively...even at the expense of leaving lots of dubious aji. I got what I wanted: a path into the middle of his intended territory, AND a clear statement that he intends to come out of this fight with a wall. That is the only way that his last move makes sense - he intends to leave the invasion available, secure in the belief that he can kill the invaders as they run out.

So...that tells me that I do not want this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . C 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He would try to build a wall at the circled points.

As I played it, he may get some outside strength, but it will be further away from his weaknesses up top. I know which direction I want to go. Now it is time to fight.

No other choice, really. I do hope that I have read this correctly.

those tho played many handycap game should be familiar with this variations..

Running immediately gives him a strong position AND sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Easy ponnuki for him
$$ --------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 1 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

So I'll follow the proverb about sacrificing two stones. They will die eventually, of course, but they will earn me sente if nothing else.

I think that the game goes like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------[/go]

...or like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 4 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I still have to decide.

There are two useful proverbs here:
1) A ponnuki is worth 30 points.
2) Add to the sacrifice stone.

I recommend looking up these in Sensei's Library, or getting a dead tree version of Kensaku Segoe's 'Go Proverbs Illustrated'.

Does that proverb also apply to central battles? I was sort of under the vague impression that it was generally reserved for edge sacrifices.

That is exactly what the proverb refers to. And it's been helpful to millions of players when dealing with battles on the edges. Adding to dead or weak stones without a plan in the middle is questionable at best. I don't see how his stones will help when MW eventually makes an even larger ponnuki...

And it's not about the variation. There are good forcing moves to be made from the outside if you leave the Black stone near-surrounded. Ignoring a contact play which also happens to cut off your stone is also not ordinary. IMO, this was definitely not the time to move the lone black stone out.

I don't know if the move was good or bad, but the proverb does apply to non-edge locales as well. The unstated principle behind the proverb is that adding liberties to the sacrifice stone makes it possible to use it more times. Of course, like all proverbs, everything depends on the situation. In Joaz' hidden diagrams, he gets more forcing moves on the outside when he adds a stone (compared to the ponnuki diagram). Given that the corner is now under threat, this might be important. Of course, Magicwand will probably find a fun way to make trouble anyways, but I think that this is what Joaz was thinking.

not what I expected. Now he is forcing me to fight. I will

The only reasonable way out.