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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #41 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:56 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
if b get this point he can not be attacked. Only move I see

Briefly considered this. Dismissed in 10 sec
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 6 7 . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #42 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:23 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 452
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Was liked: 100
Rank: 4 Dan European
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I can handle the fighting this produces. The main alternative I considered was this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 9 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But it feels wishy-washy and it's hard to find a satisfying move on the LHS for B. Hence 19 now looks best to me. But the game is better (assuming I don't collapse). W may also have alternatives to 18 above, such as:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Alternative for W18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 9 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



There are a number of possibilities following my move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 8 X 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 7 6 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


IF MW plays kosumi, I'll let him cut my 2 stones off.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc continutation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . 4 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This combination seems to me to be strong for B.

So suppose W plays this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 7 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This fighting looks plausible for me. A possble continuation:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . 7 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Again, I connect underneath. W's stones are not yet strong.

So W may prefer this:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W's best line?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 9 2 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 7 X 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . 4 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this is the line that worries me the most. MW's two stone extension in the corner is potentially now well placed. However, my group should survive. But I don't like having a large, heavy and weak group early on. (Later on it's fine.) So I may play differently to this.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Going back a bit...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe this move is best for me. I'll give it more thought if this variation appears.

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #43 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:03 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i am very tired... and thinking about how i should answer...
Korean saying..."If you think too long you will play bad move"
i hope this is not the case...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 7 4 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 6 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #44 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:27 pm 
Judan
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drmwc wrote and wrote and wrote:
...


Thanks for the comments. This thread is quickly becoming one of my favorite Malkovich games.

EDIT: It will become my absolute favorite if you beat MW. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #45 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:04 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 452
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Thanks Joaz!

The intuitive reply to 18 is below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 7 4 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 6 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



However, 2 appears to be sente. This enable W to reply to 5 at 6, which may be nasty for me. A possible continuation from here:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 2 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 O X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . a . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and W has miai of caturing my three stones and playing at a.

So my move is a natural counterattack. I think MW is forced to block. Then I'm considering two things:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this variation, I can cut at 7 again although the variations are not clear-cut from here. I have destroyed any aji I had the lower left corner, which is a little irritating.



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 7 X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 3 b O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move directly aims at a, so my be possible. I have no idea what will happen from here - the diagram shows one possible line. If I can engineer things so the atari at b becomes my sente, a is quite strong for me.

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #46 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:45 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 0 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
will not play by his rule.
getting intresting...

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #47 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:38 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Nice looking move from MW. Complicated :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: Will be interesting to see how drmwc handles it.

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #48 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:56 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 452
Liked others: 74
Was liked: 100
Rank: 4 Dan European
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Write up to follow later this evening (or later in the week if I'm lazy).

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #49 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:22 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
took me one second to find this move and one minute to verify my instinct.
he should have played 3-3 point. now he is in worse shape than before..

_________________
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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: magicwand versus drmwc
Post #50 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:27 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 452
Liked others: 74
Was liked: 100
Rank: 4 Dan European
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The motivation behind my previous move is that there is an obvious cut for me, but playing it immediately fails.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm Attack!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 3 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X 5 4 O a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 X 8 . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O X c 7 b . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


7 looks towards playing at a or at , but then 8 threatens c and looks nasty. It protects against both a and b.

So suppose MW plays a different move with 22:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Attack! take 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 5 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 X 7 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 X a . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 O X . 9 b . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now I'm definitely better off than before. Due to the 1-2 exchange, I can now answer a at b. This would have dropped some stones before. So as possiblke coninutation is:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Attack! take 2 continued
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O b X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . 1 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and this is fine with me - I can either treat my stones lightly for now or move out immediatlely at a or atari at b may be playable. (There is a cary alternative - see last tow diagrams below.)

With the move MW played, I suspect it will be similar if W connects:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 5 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 X 7 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 O X . 9 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



And if this happens, MW's move is an unconditional mistake. He'd prefer to have it at a - he's lost some number of points. SO it's worth considering what happens if MW doesn't connect initially:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm happy with this. The corner is big, and if I have miai of a and b on the outside.

Finally, it's worth considering what happens if MW blocks as below:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X 4 5 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . 7 O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . 1 2 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks OK to me - B's moyo is fairly imposing, and MW has (as noted) made an unconditional loss in the corner. MW does have an opporunity to make mischied within this sequence:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm What's going on?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X 6 7 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X 5 4 O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . 1 2 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Followed by:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm When I get that feeling (Apologies to Marvin Gaye)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X 6 X O . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 3 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


1 as above looks good to me. W can attempt to get a ko, but 7 is a nice move which seems to kill everywhere.

The line immediately above would be scary for me if W had bloked at 22, but as played they are relatively benign.

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Post #51 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:44 am 
Tengen
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
all i want out of this fight is just little advantage... i already have 6.5 points to start and only need to keep it even game to win easily.

i expect something close to bottom diag.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . 7 8 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
[

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The greater the unknown"

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Post #52 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:51 am 
Judan

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Magicwand wrote:
i expect something close to bottom diag.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O a b . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . 7 8 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


is 27 for 28 really a good exchange? Also I note that in drmwc's similar variation he had white solidly connect at a rather than cut of 24. MW's move could be a little greedy as it is not unconditionally connected as black has some aji at b/c to aim at.

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Post #53 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:03 pm 
Oza
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That's an interesting analysis, Uberdude. I would have thought that the clean capture of the D5 stone was removing aji, and the move that you and drwmc like for W (at F6) is the aggressive one (since it is sort of vaguely threatening stones (F7 and J8) that can't be attacked severely). Would you care to say anything about why this is backwards? When you say that W capturing D5 is "greedy", do you mean greedy for taking the extra two points, or something else?

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Post #54 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:22 pm 
Judan

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@jts:

I say greedy because in terms of immediate points it is better (more than 2, at least 4). If black doesn't find a way to use the bad aji at g6 then it is better. Will he use it? Impossible to say, but it's always nice to have aji to aim at. The reason I feel that the aji is relevant is the connection to the j4 k6 stones is important in this game with black's framework on the right and the j8 cap. MW's move also has the advantage of making his left group stronger, with f6 there is the possibility of ugly moves like this for black which are pretty bad exchange of inside for outside, but strictly speaking we can see white's group has less local eyeshape and the d7 shape is a flabby kosumi (better solid at d6) with an annoying peep at a. Or pushing in at d6 creates 2 cuts but the c7 one does nothing now so white could just connect at e7 (or more ambitious g7), but say black got the b3 hane and connect endgame then the c7 cut is working. So yes MW's move removes this aji, but leaves the thinness to the k6 stones aji. No one moves completely fixes all the aji. This kind of aji judgement is really hard and I didn't think about it much and even if I did I'm not sure my decision would be any better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #55 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:30 pm 
Oza
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Faster than a drunken blitzer! Thanks for the quick and helpful reply, Uberdude.

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Post #56 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:13 pm 
Judan
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Uberdude wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i expect something close to bottom diag.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O a b . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . 7 8 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


is 27 for 28 really a good exchange? Also I note that in drmwc's similar variation he had white solidly connect at a rather than cut of 24. MW's move could be a little greedy as it is not unconditionally connected as black has some aji at b/c to aim at.


I think I prefer MW's move here. And I'd take the 27/28 exchange as B. He - although he does not explicitly state so - is making a clear distinction between light and heavy. G5 is light. MW will be willing to give it up under certain circumstances. But his left side group is unassailable.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . f . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O a b . O . g . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . 7 8 . . . . . X . e . . |
$$ | . . 9 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is the J-column stones that MW is betting on to give himself a springboard to the right side. He is probably planning on something like 'd' or 'e', which when combined with 'f' or 'g', leads to a nice double attack.

Furthermore, Black's two floating central stones are light. They indeed can be used to cut off white's stones, but in doing so they become heavy.

I predict that MW's next move is 'd'.

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Post #57 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:14 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B has captured 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned. 24 takes more territory than the move I showed in my variants, but it's worse aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 a O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For example, if this happens move 29 threatens to cut at a. I't unclear to me if I should play this immediately or not - it may be stronger to keep it in reserve as a lot moves thereaten the cut, and my stones are quite light.

I didn't put down conditional moves, beacsue it's conceivable for MW not to coneetct e.g. to play at 27. I don't think it's any good for him, but it's not completely ridiculous.

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Post #58 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:17 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B has captured 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 3 X . . O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 5 O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
my assessment sofar...
i have earned some points on side.. black has som potental points on two corner..
i think they are well balanced..
not having any weak group on the board is a plus for me..
black has two stone floating in the middle which will be attcked.
black may be ahead if he didnt have weak two stones but i think i am ahead because of that two stone.

question now...is he going to tenuki? i am guessing that he will not.
i could have gone stronger moves on his group...but that is taking risk.
i didnt see any sequence of move that will break him without risking my group.
i am perfectly satisfied.

observer may ask questions and i will answer with effort.

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Post #59 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:54 am 
Gosei
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@Magicwand

How do you feel about the cut at F5? Did you think about playing F6?

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Post #60 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:16 am 
Tengen
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emeraldemon wrote:
@Magicwand

How do you feel about the cut at F5? Did you think about playing F6?

he can not cut as you see below. he can peep and let me connect...but that really doesnt matter becasue he is still swimming in my turf.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B has captured 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 2 3 5 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 O 7 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 9 8 O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X C X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



so best he can do is something like below....still not good for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B has captured 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . 1 5 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 2 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . 4 O , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X C X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


what do you mean playing F6?

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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