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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #81 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:31 am 
Gosei
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Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
I'm not a fan of Kirby's last move. If B wanted to pressure the P3 group, then J3 is clearly better. But if B wanted to develop the left, then F3 is better than G3 for the corner and threatening to turn it into territory with C5 (i.e: the relationship between F3 and C4 is stronger than the relationship between F3 and C5). G3 kind of sits on the fence between both of these objectives and it will give W an easier time in how he wants to handle the left side in the future.
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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #82 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . 9 . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 9 X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The normal move is to play at this or at A. This would make for a very long game considering Black probably has 20 points on the right and he would gain more corner territory again this way. I have one weak group, so I have to create a weakness somewhere and start some action. I don't have any other groups to worry about except for the group caught up in the fight.

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Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #83 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:14 pm 
Honinbo

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I have unhidden note #61. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #84 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:04 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . 0 O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only one way seems natural to me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . 2 6 4 . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . 1 O 5 . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nothing else really makes sense to me. This seems like the natural progression.

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #85 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:08 pm 
Lives in gote
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Rank: 4 dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O 4 x O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X a 8 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seemed bad overall since I'd have to add another move in the corner to avoid ko when Black connects at a, and even if that weren't the case, Black b is just plain severe. I feel this way I won't be forcing him to make thick shape right next to my group.

_________________
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #86 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:26 am 
Honinbo

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Was liked: 3374
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As I expected. :)

Now I wonder:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm49 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . a . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . b . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Was :w49: better on the previous move? It threatens "a" or "b". :)


Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #87 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:09 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess that's a response I didn't think about. I guess it's about the same, though.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #88 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:18 am 
Honinbo

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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
I guess it's not exactly the same this way. Maybe I don't get sente to attack his group, for example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white can tenuki in the diagram above...

Oh well, I guess I'll have to come up with a plan.

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #89 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:59 am 
Lives in gote
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Liked others: 1
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Rank: 4 dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kirby's move was slack, it didn't put any pressure on me at all. I decided to directly connect all of my groups since there are no cutting tesujis here and now my weak group has a base and his doesn't.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O 9 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X 6 1 7 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 2 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Doesn't appear to be anything.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . a . 4 3 . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't want to make these exchanges because it lets him walk into my territory easily with a later.

_________________
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #90 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:34 am 
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Kirby wrote:
I guess it's not exactly the same this way. Maybe I don't get sente to attack his group, for example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white can tenuki in the diagram above...

Oh well, I guess I'll have to come up with a plan.


I think that the time for a plan was before your last move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like :b1: threatens both White groups. How's that for a plan? ;)


Edit: Unhidden.

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #91 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:53 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm, I didn't think his last move connected for some reason, but I guess I made a mistake... I guess I will sacrifice those stones, then.

I'll play over here.

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #92 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:45 am 
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Sacrifice those stones?! Tha doesn't seem reasonable. After all, it's not like this is a high handicap game where black can afford sch great losses. The stones are a pain to save though and dragging them out s pretty painful. Maybe something like n12, which threatens to connect everything and build thckness? It certainly leaves a cutting point, but maybe cutting directly isn't so good for white. Hmm...


Ps hide tags are a pain in the ass on cell phones...

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #93 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:10 am 
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I am leaving to visit Korea. I will be gone at least until October 23.

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #94 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Kirby, you make it so difficult to root for you when you play moves like this :(.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #95 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Aphelion wrote:
Kirby, you make it so difficult to root for you when you play moves like this :(.


Could you elaborate?

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #96 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The lower left is the most urgent point. I'll deal with the upper right later.

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #97 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Aphelion wrote:
Kirby, you make it so difficult to root for you when you play moves like this :(.


Could you elaborate?


It has to do with what I said before about you "not wanting to play the game". That move, together with the tone of your comments, makes it seem like you are overly deflated about what happened on the top right . It feels like you are just hunkering down and weathering the storm, where there is still plenty of "game" left to be played. The top right group clearly isn't dead, and you talk about sacrificing it. I'm not sure the current move itself is bad, but in conjunction with your comment the feeling I get is "Ok, white can have those stones because I am not confident enough to fight and save them, I'm just going to play this big point, hopefully eke out some okayish result and hopefully my lead will last". There's not too much sense of spirit, ambition, or positive direction for the game as a whole, and hence its hard to root for this style despite hoping that you personally do well.

This post by Aphelion was liked by: Dusk Eagle
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #98 Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Hmm, I didn't think his last move connected for some reason, but I guess I made a mistake... I guess I will sacrifice those stones, then.

Wait, is he sacrificing the entire upper right corner?? That seems exceedingly large.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #99 Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:07 pm 
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@dfan et al

Adding to the weirdness, it's only a sacrifice if white has a clean capture, or if white would play some move threatening to capture and black would not want to resist.

Perhaps Kirby sees more than I do, but I see no such move. If White can't capture for sure, black should resist, and I'm not sure white can capture for sure.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game
Post #100 Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:19 pm 
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How did Black go wrong in the top right? I think that it started with :b48:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First :b48: is a single purpose move, but isn't it obvious that the action is in the top right? There are two unsettled groups there, one Black and one White. In addition, the corner is open and there is room for an invasion on the top side. Black started an attack with the marked stones. Why abandon it now?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O a . c . . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X X X . b . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like :b48: in this diagram. It is a triple purpose move. It strengthens the Black group, it attacks the White group, and it threatens to invade the top side. But other moves are good, such as "a" and "b". Even "c" is not bad. :)


I have unhidden #86 and #90. :)

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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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