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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #81 Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:28 pm 
Honinbo

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Tygem: 커비라고해
As black, I want to get a chance to play R12.

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #82 Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 121
Rank: KGS 9k
Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can still play the same direction I originally planned...
white should respond with 2, any other response to the attached stone is bad for white I think.

That leaves me with the choice of a, b or c... I like that b create a wall to the center for me, but a creates better shape and should force white to play d to strengthen their top group... This keeps the flow for me being able to push into the center and destroy possible moyo...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . c . O . d . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$${AR E13 J13}
$${AR E13 E9}[/go]

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #83 Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:17 pm 
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I feel that all white's pincer's emphasize the wrong side. As black, I would be glad to play a 4-corner game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 8 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #84 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:54 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 170
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 23
Rank: 6d KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I presume he's expecting the hane on the other side of his stone 27. But this hane instead allows me to get the wall I want after the following joseki sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #85 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:07 am 
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Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 121
Rank: KGS 9k
Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Worst case scenario, white attaches with (a), I attach with (b)... That gives me an anchor into the middle still to prevent large moyos. White is then pretty much forced to play to save their corner, if not I can invade with (c)... Now I have the choice of building out or extending framework...

We will see how that goes though... so far white has managed to thwart my every prediction lol...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #86 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:32 am 
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Posts: 170
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Rank: 6d KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If this is joseki, I'm not familiar with it. I was expecting he'd follow the pattern I showed in the last post... He seems really not to want me to get this wall!
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #87 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:34 am 
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Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #88 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 170
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Was liked: 23
Rank: 6d KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered playing at C16 instead, but that has problems from around E17 later - not nice...
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #89 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:35 pm 
Honinbo
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Hidden until upper left corner is completely settled.
:b29: was impossible. Cut was the only move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . X . .
$$ | . . 1 O .
$$ | . . O X .
$$ | . . . . .[/go]
Because the resulting broken shape is very bad for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . Y . .
$$ | . . @ @ .
$$ | . . @ Y .
$$ | . . X . .
$$ | . . . . .[/go]
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #90 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 121
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Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


play here is solid. Even with that top corner I think Black is still ahead some though it is close, however i am well on my way to breaking the center which is to my advantage...

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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #91 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:00 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 170
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 23
Rank: 6d KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . 8 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If this stone on F3 magically comes back to life, I could be in a lot of trouble with a weak group on both sides. This move removes a lot of the aji of this stone. If black gets to extend it to F4 himself, I'm in a lot of trouble. I looked at other ways of blocking for example playing on F5, but then black can escape via G4 and it's not great since both my white groups would be weak... I've also worked out (I think!) that if black extends to D14, I win the semeai, so not worried about that :) .
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #92 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok... wasn't expecting his move there... a little too precautionary I think.. So I will take a big point on the board then... this leaves miai for me at a and b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . a . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline EdLee
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Post #93 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:19 pm 
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:b35: seems wrong direction, not urgent, since :ws: is already settled;
:b1: seems big, aiming at the weakness at (a):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . @ . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This post by EdLee was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, hman
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Offline EdLee
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Post #94 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Jordus wrote:
this leaves miai for me at a and b
(a) and (b) are not miai, because (b) is a very big shared point --
it has to do with the weakness of the :wc: group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm27
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . a . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
For example, if W gets :w1:, W takes care of :wc:,
and the :b2: :w3: exchange is clearly good for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . 2 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This post by EdLee was liked by: hman
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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #95 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not too bothered by him playing that move - I thought he would've tried to extend from his shimari on the right since there is still room to extend there in the correct direction. So, I'll take that extension for myself - it's kind of doubly big since it's good for both of us. I think this is the right distance. If I play one line closer to black's shimari, he might pincer and that's a bit eww...
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #96 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Posts: 1125
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . 1 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Simba
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #97 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Posts: 170
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Rank: 6d KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been reading 'Opening Theory Made Easy' recently, and one of the points in the book is to make your moyo '3d'. By this he means extend your moyo towards the centre. So, I think this point is good. I was torn between this point and something like G16 for more security, but if I play cautiously with G16, he can play something like L15, pushing back my development potential and also developing from his corner and edge. I don't know - maybe G16 is fine, but I don't like black's potential replies to it. I'm just worried that K15 might trigger an invasion... Maybe I could kill the invasion - I'm not entirely sure. I'd definitely try. This seems like a more ambitious move, and I guess if I'm going to improve, I can't keep fearing my own shadow...
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #98 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What?! You cannot do this. You absolutely absolutely cannot do this. You MUST CUT here. If you were going to give up that original approach that easily here, you should have just played at D11 in the first place and the corner would still have been open.

Abandoning a stone like the way White has done with C14 is completely not acceptable. If you played it, you can't even begin to consider losing it without getting value out of it. Cowardice is the sure path to a loss.
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #99 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Man, white has made up a ton of lost ground in less than 10 moves...
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba
Post #100 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
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Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to reduce the top corner moyo... how best to do that? somewhere around where I am playing is my best guess

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