It is currently Thu May 15, 2025 4:50 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 210 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 11  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #81 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:33 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

another totally unexpected move by my opponent..
this time i am really curious what he wrote on his hidden...

what he played can not be good...
i feel that i am slowly creeping into the driver's seat.
soon i will be in control

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #82 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:46 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1848
Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 837
Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . 9 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . a . X . . 9 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

'a' is my privilege, but is there a need to play here straight away? Without a doubt White can live at the top, but sealing him in is sufficient. It also bridges my two groups together which can't be a bad thing at all. However,since my corner group is pretty much safe and now I have sente, I figure now would be a good time to put some pressure on this group.

Also, why am I doing this when it's 2:45am here + I have an exam in 5 hours...zzz.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #83 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:05 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . 0 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


since i think i am ahead ... i will play weak move to secure life.
it is weak but if you compare that with black playing knight move on me as below.... i dont think it is weak at all.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . 1 . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . W . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #84 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:55 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
i will have to say his last attack was wrong direction.
i can say that because i feel that below attack looks better than his.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . 1 . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #85 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:57 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1848
Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 837
Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move ensures both groups don't settle just yet. Simple as that.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #86 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:44 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
I'm not impressed with either of Araban's last two moves. The area around 'a', and 'b' are miai. And besides, white always has 'c'. So black playing at 'b' seems rather tepid and maybe even aji keshi.
But a move like 'd' is huge for both sides. Had I been black with sente on move 39, I would have played something around there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . a a . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . b . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . c . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . d . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #87 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:27 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
wow...really?
let me guess what Joaz said in the hidden... strong disapproval on my opponent's move.
i think i can comfortably tenuki and run further away..

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #88 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:01 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 84
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 45
@araban
Is it possible you are over estimating the weakness of W's groups? How can you profit from attacking them?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #89 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:40 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1848
Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 837
Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
RedStick wrote:
@araban
Is it possible you are over estimating the weakness of W's groups? How can you profit from attacking them?

Of course it's possible. Maybe all those high handicap games I've had to play at AGA tournaments and Tygem games have caused me to give way too little credit to the strength of my opponent's groups. Who knows; but I don't need to kill the group; if I can cut off a chunk of them, or gain thickness on the outside and gain control of the center, then that's good enough for me. That's how I intend to profit.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, I'll just commit to this and let's see what happens. Don't expect much from me to comment until the battle is resolved; the only thing that's going to be happening here is reading and reading only.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #90 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:51 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . 4 X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hum...i didnt expect that move..which means that it probably wont hurt me.
my opponent must becareful not to lose another sente because i almost tenuki here.

i think it is aji-keshi and he loses more points for unnecessary probe.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #91 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:09 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Add me to the "not impressed by black's last few moves" crowd. My idea in this position would be to play on the outside-- to try and force white to play a move in there to live.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #92 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:50 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Araban wrote:
... the only thing that's going to be happening here is reading and reading only.


I think that is the problem. Black seems over-focussed on the upper side and is reading out ways to win there. His last three moves have been two aji keshis and one 2nd rank move that does...uhhh :scratch:... errr...something useful...eventually...I think.
Meanwhile, white is thinking whole-board and has gotten a grip on a good portion of the lower left quarter of the board.

I think that black's best chance is to try to get P10 in sente as part of an attack, and then with something around Q7 he may be able to grab a large side. Maybe Araban has read out that general scheme and can force it. If he can do it and then get Q7 in sente I will be impressed.


I've got some reservations about MW's play at F3 too. I think that he would have been wiser to play at K3. He is leaving his lower right group to fend for itself.
If we assume that the developing fight in the upper right is going to roll southward, all Araban has to do is play M3 at the right time, and MW could have problems.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example of the general flow that could turn bad for white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . # . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now white is in trouble and F3 is too far away.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #93 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:31 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 160
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 37
Rank: UK 3 dan
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I've got some reservations about MW's play at F3 too.

I think the reasoning behind F3 over K3 is that White's lower right group is fairly strong (so we don't play close) and White's lower right group is undercut (so we don't try and make territory on the bottom). I think F3 makes sense.

I agree completely on Black's previous moves though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . 4 a . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . b . X . . 3 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Before seeing this last set of moves I was debating whether or not to make a post about the size of playing 4/a for White/Black respectively. I've had games reviewed by professionals where there was a move that affects the base of two (semi)-weak groups and in one:
"How can you play there - it's tiny - much better to run out into the centre"
and in the other:
"How could you not play there - it's huge - it affects the life and death of both groups"
Unfortunately I didn't understand the differences between the two games.
In this game I was leaning towards "it's huge" and would have been tempted to play 1 at a but have the uneasy feeling that I am completely misevaluating.

I think Black's problems stem from 1. Moves 1,3 and 5 seem inconsistent. 1 helped prevent the top left group from being surrounded and simultaneously strengthened the top middle (allowing b). With this group stronger I would have (also) expected 3 to be on the bottom (though I think maybe F3 is better for reasons above). However, 3 in the game strengthens the top group even more.

As Joaz said there's a kind of miai between playing at a/4 and jumping in the centre. I thought that 3 said "I think that the centre is the more important of the two and you can have the mutual base move." But then to answer 4 with 5 I don't understand. 3 can't be right if 4 was going to be sente.

Finally, I don't understand what 7 does at all. But anyway, that's all just my thoughts from casually spectating, I know Araban can beat me up. I'm looking forward to seeing how this attack goes.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #94 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:15 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
@Magicwand:

What made you choose F3 instead of something like K3?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #95 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:29 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
emeraldemon wrote:
@Magicwand:

What made you choose F3 instead of something like K3?

as i stated prior..i am ahead and i dont want any complications.
i choose most solid move i can find that will minimize the variations.
k3??? that is weak. i wouldnt play that move even if i was losing.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


This post by Magicwand was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #96 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:01 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 588
Location: NY
Liked others: 124
Was liked: 46
Rank: 2D KGS
to magicwand
With your last tenuki, did you consider something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And if not why not?

_________________
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #97 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:48 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Jedo wrote:
to magicwand
With your last tenuki, did you consider something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And if not why not?

never considered it.
because it does not do me any good by sealing black.
1. i lose very important sente.
2. my group is already secured.
3. no point gained and very little influence improved.
4. bottome is very important for both of us.

can you give me a good reason why you considered that move?

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #98 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:32 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 588
Location: NY
Liked others: 124
Was liked: 46
Rank: 2D KGS
to magicwand
What you say makes sense, but doesn't the bottom enclosure lose sente anyway? I guess the reason I though it was big was because these two boards seem very different to me:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . B . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . W . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But maybe it's not that big of a deal anyway?

_________________
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #99 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:54 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 350
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 33
Rank: 4 dan
To people who are not impressed with Black's play, I have to respectfully disagree. I like his moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . 2 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . 1 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This move does two things. It sets up an attack on White. His group is easily destabilized and this threatens his center eye. White will have to defend and keep himself small. He does this while simultaneously reducing White's lower right thickness. When Black eventually dives in the left side of the board he'll have some center control. White's upper left group is still in limbo. As the center becomes solid White might have to come back and defend in Gote, so splitting the two groups is big.

White 4 is the correct move. The bottom is not big with the bottom open at a, so the prime real estate is the corner territory, which this move does a good job of emphasizing.

_________________
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #100 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:59 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Jedo wrote:
to magicwand
What you say makes sense, but doesn't the bottom enclosure lose sente anyway? I guess the reason I though it was big was because these two boards seem very different to me:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . B . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . W . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But maybe it's not that big of a deal anyway?

if he try to seal me as you said..then he will lose his sente. i can tenuki very comfortably.
IMO that is nogo.

reason why i feel i am ahead is because of his questionable moves that had no purpose.
you can not give your opponent sente for no reason and expect to win.
he had a chance to invade my bottom but didnt capatalize.
i tenukied and placed one more stone on the bottom..
that is only one stone but the difference is night and day.
i dont think you will see me fighting in this game. i will maintain that small(?) margin till the end and seal my win.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 210 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group