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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #21 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:23 pm 
Gosei
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I find it hard to point to white's mistakes this game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . c . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . r . q . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . p . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . o . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

'c' was my instinct (and comes third out of the ~12 games in my slightly dated database).

I find it hard to call 'o' a mistake, but it may be said it's a little myopic. Bottom left was quite settled. Similarly 's' before a move like 'x' seems sub par. White has played too much on the left side of the board (without getting the left extension yet).

Perhaps if white can start an attack...

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #22 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 am 
Oza

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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Loons wrote:
I find it hard to point to white's mistakes this game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . c . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . r . q . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . p . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . o . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

'c' was my instinct (and comes third out of the ~12 games in my slightly dated database).

I find it hard to call 'o' a mistake, but it may be said it's a little myopic. Bottom left was quite settled. Similarly 's' before a move like 'x' seems sub par. White has played too much on the left side of the board (without getting the left extension yet).

Perhaps if white can start an attack...


I don't like that board position either. I'm inclined to think that white should have played more actively for :w8:, perhaps with some sort of loose or high pincer, to break up black's potential on the top, and try to hold on to sente to prevent black getting q10. With C6 low, I'm not sure that the left side is the biggest place to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is still a nice big label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . a b , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #23 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:59 pm 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I just realized that my last move at e17 was bad. It not only made the black stone stronger, but also reduced my chance to do anything in that region, like `a` or `b`.
In addition, I think white can still invade at `c` and live.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------`
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I didnt want to approach the bottom right, since I dont want to make the black stronger at the bottom, so I decided to approach the top/right.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #24 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:54 pm 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The standard response in such situations with the high pincering stones. The standard sequence is for him to extend upwards, and I'll one space jump to follow.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #25 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:06 pm 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really want to see where he plays next.
With `a` he makes the top and top/right side stronger.
I think `b` helps white to run to the center and force some answer from black on the top side later.
Since his corner (T/R) and my corner (T/L) looks similar.. i will take a look how a 3x3 invasion (and any other shenanigans) can go through.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . a . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #26 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:24 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 67
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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
Universal go server handle: siowy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he does one space extend, I'll kick him again to make him overconcentrated.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #27 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:44 am 
Oza

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Q7 :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #28 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:25 am 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've check different approaches to this play (from `a` to `e` in the board below) and I didnt like most of them.
If I play at `a`: Black could force white to live small on the side while getting stronger and influence to the center.
`b`: Black could separate the stone from the other white group.
`c`: If black separate them, I will have 2 weak groups. Dont want that.
`d` and `e`: Didnt want to black to squeeze white to fortify his groups.

I wonder if I will feel the same about those options later on, after this game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . d . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b W a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . c . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #29 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:49 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 67
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Universal go server handle: siowy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . z O x . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Shape-wise, I have only two choices, hane at x or descend to y. I briefly considered hane above at z, but if white plays at y, he has too much eyespace for my liking. My goal here is to maintain good shape, allow him no more than one eye, and force him to run his group out.

If I descend to y, I expect him to descend also. In that case, I will have to decide between hane and extend upwards. Hane seems reasonable but I've been told by someone stronger than it's a little too aggressive. Extend seems fine. It's also possible that he could hane above if I descend, but it looks okay if I just play it out like below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 23
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ , . . . . 2 X 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


If I hane at x, I expect him to follow hane and then the below variation looks good for me. He would be very cramped.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 23
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . 3 O 1 . . |
$$ , . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


I decide to go with the hane.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #30 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:57 pm 
Dies in gote
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[go]$$c Move 24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Initially, I tried to see if theres a way for black to cut my 2 groups. As far as I could check I could connect them.

Before this play, I tried hane first. However, it became complicated really fast and I couldnt find a variation that I liked.

Unfortunately, I just went like 3 moves deep in my search tree (in my head and using eidogo). My list of expected moves from my opponent is really small.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #31 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Funny story... I was checking the Monday BenGoZen of this week and a similar situation happened (on the top right).
Its something for me to try later and see how it goes.
I will also see how to follow up after `a`.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #32 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:20 pm 
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[go]$$c Move 25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I didn't expect this. I'll just push and destroy his base completely. If he pushes my stone along the 4th line I'll gladly take territory.

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Post #33 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:43 am 
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[go]$$c Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a vital point for black to separate the 2 groups.
I tried different variations first and it didnt work so well. For the record, I tried `a` to `d`.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X b . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . c . O O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Where's he going to play next? Maybe `a` or `b`?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . a . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . b X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #34 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:06 pm 
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[go]$$c Move 27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . B X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The UR corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . 4 . 1 7 . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is my reading of the upper right corner. He can live there in gote any time, unless I reinforce. That's fine for me. He would get at most 5 points, and I'd lose ~15 points, but it's gote and it would also make my stones stronger.

I'm only considering the upper right corner now because his outside group is so weak that it's "as good as dead", so the strengthening of my outside stones wouldn't be that much help for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc other considerations
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This would be irritating. I want to play at :b2: pre-emptively, which would help the LR moyo too. So I decide on that.

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Post #35 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:35 am 
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[go]$$c Move 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I really want to tenuki but I need to leave this group in a little better shape.

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Post #36 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:24 pm 
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[go]$$c Move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . B . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I tenuki, the tiger's mouth is too good shape for him, and it would hurt my LR moyo. I chose to jump instead of extend because it's faster.

On hindsight, I wish I had just extended. The result doesn't look great for me if he just pushes and connects.

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Post #37 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:58 am 
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[go]$$c Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


His bottom/right side looks huge. I was waiting the right time to invade at 3x3.
Although, I dont know if this is the right time to do it.
I'm worried about my top/right group but I think it can run away if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #38 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:13 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . B X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I block this direction to get territory on the right side. Also, my lone stone at the middle of the bottom side will become stronger, so it will be harder for him to capture my LL corner stones easily, because his pincering stones at the bottom will become weaker.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #39 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:15 am 
Dies in gote
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Posts: 51
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 2
Rank: IGS 9k
Universal go server handle: cobrahc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is he going to follow the joseki? I want to close this in sente.

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 Post subject: Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Post #40 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:25 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 67
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 12
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
Universal go server handle: siowy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 33
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . B . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd like to take sente to hane at x.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 33
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . x O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . , . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . B . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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