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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #61 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:19 am 
Lives in gote

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Uberdude wrote:
Aidoneus, can I suggest you post 2 alternative moves you considered for each move. This way we can see if you are considering better moves but dismissing therm through faulty judgement, or failing to find them. It's also a good discipline to follow and should make you play better.


Just going back to my last move, I thought that G17 was sente. I also wanted to play D13 (gote, yes?), B3 (too small, yes?), thought about S6 (another gote move, yes?), considered K15 (cap no good with the extension to G17 available, yes?), S10 (getting side territory seemed too small and gote, yes?), finally I keep looking around G6/H5 for a moyo (again, gote, yes?). I'll try to be more specific in the future, even if it means I produce more drivel. :oops: Thank you for your advice! Oh, and since I'm still looking at these moves as follow-ups, I can wait till the end of the game to read any criticisms, thanks.

And I'm pretty sure I'm both missing good moves entirely and dismissing good moves out of fear since MFoG really punishes my tactical errors (or creates tactical complications where I miscalculate), especially involving cuts. Connection problems are at the top of my list of failings to address. I think someone else suggested Art of Go: Connecting Stones. I plan on purchasing some SmartGo books next pay. :D

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Post #62 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:16 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm33
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #63 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:19 pm 
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Could've placed at all four 3-3 points. Let's try something different. :)

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #64 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:22 am 
Lives in gote

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Hi Ed, I hope your trip is going well! Just past 2:00 AM here, old man up to urinate and can't get back to sleep, so figured I'd check online. Happy happenstance. :lol:

EDIT: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... o-urinate/

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I guess that I don't know sente from gote! Anyway, Ed's move was a complete surprise. I did think that he might play at the 3-3 but not at this 3-4. I really want to play at R18, B3, and S6, in that order of assessment, but I didn't seriously consider any other move right now in this position. Oh, sure, I can point to lots of other spots I wish I had stones, but I'm not going to cheat and fill in the board with Black stones. ;-)


Last edited by Aidoneus on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #65 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:30 am 
Honinbo
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Hi Aidoneus, thanks. A bit tiring, from the flight & travels, and the noise pollution here. :)
( Local time: Thursday Nov 6, 2014. 4:30 pm. )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm35
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #66 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:39 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm35
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . 4 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


:w35: is normally at 36, and here is why. Black contains White in the corner and takes sente.

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, mipli
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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #67 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:19 am 
Lives in gote

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Where, exactly, is here, if I may ask?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm36
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #68 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:13 am 
Honinbo
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[go]$$Wm37
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Hi Aidoneus, I'm in Asia. :)
( Local time: Thursday Nov 6, 2014. 10:11 pm. )

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #69 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:09 am 
Lives in gote

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I have no idea why I thought you were in Europe. I would love to travel overseas some day.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm38
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Nothing to see here, move along!

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #70 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:20 am 
Oza

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skydyr wrote:
paK0 wrote:
As much as I enjoy the dan vs dan Malkovich games, this is pretty cool too, only 10 moves played and you can already learn something =)

Can someone enlighten me about :w11:? I thought it was normal to wait for a double enclosure to jump into the 3-3

When you're playing a high-handicap game as white, you can't always afford to play the proper move because you're too far behind. This is an invasion into a corner enclosure, and the basic strategy is probably something on the lines of "I take the territory, then I live big in the center. No territory for you!" Don't do this normally. Also, attaching to the right of the star point is perhaps more common with this enclosure than the direct 3-3 invasion, but it depends on white's goals. The 2-4 and 2-5 can also be quite valid, making more of a miai between the corner and side.

That said, you're thinking of a double-wing formation, as when black has both star points on the sides adjacent. This is actually later than that here, as black also has the ogeima extension.


As a follow-up to this, you'll notice that black has allowed white to gain two groups that are pretty solid and have side or center access in the UR and BL, with F4 and Q13. This is, in a sense, black having punished himself by not sealing white in, and is, in a way, a vindication of white's supposedly incorrect strategy, since white has strong groups with territory plus the ability to contest the middle. If each of those groups were sealed in properly, white would have a much more difficult game ahead.

White's goal in a handicap game is (or should be) to catch up steadily, and if the handicap is correct, they should be very close to black in the endgame, either winning or losing by a few points.

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #71 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:38 am 
Tengen

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R18 and S6 are rather small on this board. Since black's group in the lower right is very strong, S6 is just points. In the upper right, R18 doesn't threaten much, and Black doesn't yet have to worry about defending that particular group.

But playing in the upper left is definitely right.

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Post #72 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:03 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm39
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time: Friday Nov 7, 2014. 1:03 pm. )

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Post #73 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:11 pm 
Honinbo
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If we change the order of the sequence:
if :w1: directly at 3-3 instead of :w33: attach at (a),
B might have blocked at (a) instead of (b) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 b . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . a X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Continuation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 8 X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . 9 2 X 7 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . c . . d . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

After that, :b10: is unclear: (c) or (d)...since we got some external input. :)

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #74 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:12 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Don't ask me, I'm just playing the "standard" corner moves that end in gote. I did notice that by playing first at C16, instead of C17, Ed induced the direction he wanted me to block.

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #75 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:14 am 
Honinbo

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Aidoneus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Don't ask me, I'm just playing the "standard" corner moves that end in gote.


Well, we'll see if Aidoneus changes his mind, but this is why people advise against learning joseki. As Znosko-Borovsky said about chess, Do not make opening moves automatically and without reflection.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe he will realize that after :w43:, Black can and should take sente and play elsewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Worst case, sacrifice
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O B 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 1 3 X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X 2 4 8 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


If White does cut, Black has a ladder starting with :b2: - :w3:, :b5:, but should things change so that the ladder no longer works, Black can sacrifice the :bc: stone as shown. WTP? (What's The Problem?)

Normally White will not cut but in the endgame play the clamp with :w5:, leading to :b3: - :w7:, :b1:. Preventing that is small. Black should not take gote now.

Quote:
I did notice that by playing first at C16, instead of C17, Ed induced the direction he wanted me to block.


Interesting observation. "If White had started on the 3-3, I would have blocked at C-16, but he has cleverly played to induce me to transpose into a variation in which I blocked at D-17." Wait a second! As Emmanuel Lasker might have said, Black has not made a mistake by blocking at C-15. Can White really force me, in effect, into making an inferior play? Maybe so, but maybe not. If White wants me to play at D-17, maybe I should make a different play.

If Aidoneus had followed that train of thought, he might have found the descent to B-15 or the solid connection at D-15.

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #76 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:34 am 
Honinbo
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Posts: 8859
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time: Friday Nov 7, 2014. 5:33 pm. )

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #77 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:31 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 603
Location: Indiana
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Trouble!
Right here in Ebony City.
Trouble with a "T"
And that rhymes with "P"
And that stands for PyeSeok!

I'm covering for another professor this morning, so I'll check back this afternoon (CST). No need to hurry, I'll just bandage up my gnawed fingertips...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm42
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I agonized over playing this move or F9. If F9, however, I didn't like the fight after White plays C6. Maybe I'm deluded but I believe that I am still ahead, so I think that I should avoid unnecessary fights. I briefly considered capping at K15, but I think the stone can squirm too much and may still connect out to the right and gouge out more territory. (Yeah, as fearful as I am, don't you wonder how I get out my door?) I still want to play moves at R18, S6, and B3. Someday I hope to tenuki! BTW, I forgot to mention that by playing at C16, Ed lead me to block the left side--yeah, it's all his fault, I'm innocent I tell ya--so now the stone at G17 feels off slightly.

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Post #78 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:33 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I guess Ed didn't want to take gote. :lol:

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #79 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:58 am 
Honinbo

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Aidoneus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm42
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I agonized over playing this move or F9. If F9, however, I didn't like the fight after White plays C6.


Continuing that train of thought, how can you prevent White from playing C-06, without strengthening White? The question answers itself, doesn't it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm42
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . B B . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


:b42: forms a strong shape called the table shape with the :bc: stones. In addition, it threatens to connect underneath with :b44:. (Not that Black should make that play soon, but it is an option.)

I might worry that :b42: is too passive, but it would be bothersome if White played there, and it is an attacking play, since it leaves the :wc: stone without a base. Besides, it is a 6 stone game. :)

Quote:
Maybe I'm deluded but I believe that I am still ahead, so I think that I should avoid unnecessary fights.


That's not a delusion, it's a non sequitur. ;) You are still ahead, but that does not mean that you should avoid fights. In fact, the way to solidify a lead is by attacking, as a rule. To echo Ben Hogan, you develop your power by using it. To echo Sakata in Killer of Go, you won't become a killer if you don't try to kill.

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #80 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:06 am 
Honinbo
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Posts: 8859
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm43
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time: Friday Nov 7, 2014. 11:06 pm. )

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