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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #41 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:52 am 
Lives with ko

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I think I would prefer to attack in this situation. I am sure there are a lot of posible responses from white after black cuts the two white stones, but I think black is at an advantage. Perhaps someone can school me as to why this is a bad idea.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #42 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:39 am 
Honinbo
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Go_Japan,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B var 1
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 var 1 cont'd
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O C O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B var 2
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #43 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:51 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...
:...My current favorite is an innocuous looking move at C10...


Actually, it turns out - according to my notoriously poor reading - that C10 works even after an attempted cut:

If he is determined to make the cut, he can have it, but I can slide under, making territory in the upper left, and my central stones turn into reducing stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . 3 X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or, if he is determined to not let me make territory in the upper left, he can make himself heavy with :w3:, and then I threaten to make lots of territory in the lower left instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He almost certainly declines this, and then I net the cutting stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 3 2 X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

( The peek at D7 can be played at several different points here, and probably is best after the pinwheel forms. )

There are far more lines that I have looked at that I don't have time to show here, and probably a few more lines beyond those which I should have looked at but didn't. However, the general tactical gestalt seems to be good enough that I think that I don't have to do anything with my ogeima yet, and I can keep marking out territory on the lower side and aiming to connect toward the center.

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Post #44 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:55 am 
Honinbo
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Hmm...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #45 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:27 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 7 . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

not what i expected...
really?
I will carry on with my prediction.
he is planning to peep and peep?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 7 . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 1 . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


that double peep will not be good for black....
if he is thinking about the peep that is.....
after some thinking..i dont think i will answer his second peep.
so his correct sequence is reverse the peeping order....
which i dont think he will think that deep.

too many thoughts in my head...
afterall he might not even think about the peep..

i will save my energy and let him make his move then think about the situation.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #46 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:29 pm 
Tengen
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It's about time! I was getting bored. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #47 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
It's about time! I was getting bored. :lol:

I was waiting for you to make the game exciting and you wouldn't so i did. :)

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


This post by Magicwand was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #48 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:38 pm 
Tengen
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Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
obs:
let me guess his move....
I think he will go this route and
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X 6 X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

surprise!!!!!

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #49 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:17 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
obs:
as i discussed before if he reverse the peeping order i can not retaliate.
Professionals sometime miss such delicate points (due to lack of concentration of course) i believe it was game between yoo changhyuk and Lin back in 1989 ish???
after studying that game i gotton in habbit of thinking about peeping order carefully.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O a . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 4 O 2 O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #50 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:59 pm 
Tengen
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Kaya handle: Test
"Nobody wants to see me die, but they don't wanna miss it if I do."
- Evel Knievel

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers
Hmmm...I expected the other cut. :scratch:

It is almost midnight here so I am going to post the move now and comments later.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #51 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:05 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this is kind of move you dont need to think... only one way to answer. black digging holes deeper

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Post #52 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:36 am 
Honinbo
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Hmmm...I expected the other cut. :scratch:
Seems odd.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #53 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:27 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
OBS:
Let's talk about his last marked exchange below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I had weakness on that group and he let me fix it in sente.
His intension is to use that exchanged stone to secure life i think.

Let's study chinese character!!!
I summerize this situation as '生 不 如 死'
生 = life
不 = not
如 = equals ? or is?? or conneting two letter??? <---I am not sure beause i am not chinese.
死 = death

above phrase can be translated into:
living is same as dying or dying is better than living.

My opponent tried to save his garbage stones and made terrorable exchange
and committed himself into saving the group (two stone = target)
It is like calling half of your pot with one low pair in holdem poker.
Terrorable thing about go is that it is different from holdem.
your future does not depend on luck but in mercy of your opponent's mistake.

My outlook or wishes:
He probably can save his stones in gote but will hurt other stones around and help me connect my weak stones which will worth more than his group' life. (only a guess. i am not sure what variation he will take)
I will make sure to provide him with life. <----very different than kyu player's way of thinking

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Post #54 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:43 pm 
Honinbo
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Magicwand:
Quote:
生不如死
Perhaps Fate worse than death --
or maybe there are even better interpretations.


This post by EdLee was liked by: Magicwand
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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #55 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:55 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
obs:
Since my opponents is not playing i keep looking at the board position and try to find some ways black can makeup for his mistakes.
and i found intresting sequence b can win.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 9 X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 4 6 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 B O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if this is what he has in mind..it looks bad for white.

even worse for below...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


maybe i am thinking too much...

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Post #56 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:14 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 5409
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1031
Was liked: 1424
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #57 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:06 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
trigger gives me advantage of knowing his next move.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #58 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:15 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 5409
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1031
Was liked: 1424
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't understand this. I made a move that was aji keshi in his favor ( allowing him to connect two stones in his string of tobis ) just so I could protect against a future cut at D8.
Instead of making the honte move at D6, he replies with a move that is aji keshi for me! ( Now D3 is covered when he pushes through at E4 ) :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X x 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now the threat of him invading my lower side is dramatically reduced. And I still can push thorough at D5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Perhaps he sees some advantage later when his 6th rank stones may have to stay connected, and he can form an unbreakable bamboo joint at G5 to ensure that they escape eastward.

I just do not see any advantage to him playing it this way.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #59 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:03 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
4 and 5 miai he probably let me have 5 and he will go 4.
after 5, a invasion is poinful for black. and bottom white group shape is settled somewhat...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #60 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:36 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4842
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 504
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
i would be satsfied with bottom variation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 9 X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 3 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 6 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O B . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O 1 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 6 2 X 4 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O B . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 2 . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


so he might
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 3 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X 4 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

still good for white..

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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