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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #61 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:55 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White does not raise the temperature in the upper center, so I can tenuki.
I wanted to get this move in for two reasons:
1) There may be a ladder or a running group coming southeast out of the center, and
2) It expands my lower group out into the center a bit. If I get O3 before he plays in the lower right, it might get big.

I think that he has to reply, otherwise I kill him.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #62 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:36 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


C7 is big (about 30 points). Adding a stone to the running fight is urgent. Urgent before big. However it is very difficult to decide on a specific move. J13 looks dangerous but I couldn't find another move that could put enough pressure on black. The problem is the cut at L16. If I want to attack I can't sacrifice the K16 stone. At least J13 defends against the cut indirectly
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . 6 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 8 . O 5 7 . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X 3 4 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #63 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:01 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5539
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He just made the center more urgent. If I tenuki to take profit in the lower left, one more move by him makes the center his.

I can't push at K15 right now. His most recent move limits my ability to extend away from that fight. But having F15 reinstates the threat to play K15.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . d . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X a . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like my options here:
A) I can push through at K15.
B) I can try to attack his upper left corner with D14
C) I can kill his lower left corner
He can't stop all of them

And if things get really hairy, I can probably live on the upper side with 'd' and/or run with 'e'.

FWIW, I did consider G15, because it is tactically more solid:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...but it is smaller and more likely to leave me with a heavy group.
Staying light may matter a lot here.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #64 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:34 pm 
Judan
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@ observers, particularly beginners:
I present a sideline here, so that you all can appreciate the subtleties of judgement that must be made in this position. ( I'm not saying that TegaiS and I make these judgements correctly, merely that the circumstances compel us to try. )

The toe bone is connected to the footbone which is connected to...etc.

There are variations in the upper right in which black goes to the mattresses, not allowing white space for two eyes, thereby forcing white to seek life in the center or die trying.
I haven't memorized the variations, I only recall the general idea. I suspect that my opponent has memorized them - I can't imagine him playing this way otherwise. So if he has already shown this, please pardon me for the redundancy.

It starts like this, with black 2 and 4 fighting for eye space in the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . C . . 5 X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . C . . 6 . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black has some additional stones in the area - here arbitrarily placed at the circled spots - white dies.

So white must be careful about becoming too heavy in the center, or those circled stones - or some similarly placed black stones - will be played in sente attacking the center, and will later turn around and participate in killing his invasion in the upper right.

The converse of all of this is that white is waiting for the board to stabilize a bit so that he can play in the corner, leaving black with the unpleasant choice between letting white have the corner or run to friends in the center.

It follows, therefore, that black wants to keep the white stones in the center weak or at least of uncertain status.
A particular action toward this goal is playing K15. As long as black threatens to do that, the white invader at S16 is frozen.

In other words, the black stone that I just played at F15 affects the white stone at S16.

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Post #65 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:47 pm 
Honinbo
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Quote:
It starts like this, with black 2 and 4 fighting for eye space in the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------|
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ . . X 3 1 . . |
$$ . . . 5 X O . |
$$ . . . . X 7 . |
$$ . . . 6 . 8 . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]
The above fight can quickly become very complicated.
Not easy for beginners.
Also, seems unlikely B had it in mind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------|
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 6 3 7 . |
$$ . . X 2 1 . 5 |
$$ . . . , X O . |
$$ . . . . X 4 . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #66 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:02 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 152
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
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Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut works so I can't attack and go back to defense.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . 0 4 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 8 6 9 O 3 5 . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 7 X 1 2 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . Q . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probably :w22: was a mistake. It helps my weak stones a little but now black can play D15.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #67 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:19 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5539
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This would be huge for white:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X 5 7 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #68 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:15 am 
Lives in gote

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Fun game! :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #69 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:18 am 
Lives with ko

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Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can't predict Joaz at all. The local situations in that game are so complicate that I can't read them to any satisfactory extent. The cut makes it even more complicate so I can hope that my opponent will not be able to read it out too. I can only see that the ladder is in white's favour.

After this the san-san invasion looks scary. And even if it doesn't work white corner looks miserably.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . 8 . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 9 . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here Black has D18. But my intuition says that Black has to care about :b25: and :b29: first. Black also has the loose ladder starting at F13. It doesn't work immediately but B15 seems to be the ladder breaker. Still I think this is better than the previous diagram.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . Q . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . x X X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The other loose laddder also doesn't work.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . Q . O . x . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X 6 . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O 2 4 5 . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #70 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:56 am 
Judan
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Well... my opponent certainly does not lack courage. :bow:

I have to accept his trigger and push through at 27. He then will complete the cut at 28.
My best play then is probably 29, and B16 is the shape move for both of us. He will almost certainly take it.


Trigger accepted.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I try something like this, one of my groups dies.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . 0 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #71 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:11 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #72 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:41 am 
Judan
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Once I play move 31 at F13, then the next handful of moves is forced. I'm including triggers so that I don't bore either opponent or observers.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger: ( I'll play all or as much of this sequence as you wish)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 4 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@observers:
Life has been busy lately, and the time crunch is not helped by analyzing for hours.
I'll post more on move 31 later.

For right now, I'll mention that all of this makes sense if you keep in mind that black cannot allow white to play F14 in sente. Black has to restrict white's liberties, otherwise this happens:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 If the net is too loose, white 3 becomes a killer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . 7 . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X 5 . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O 1 2 6 . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . C O O X 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X C X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In a day or two I hope to get back to the alternatives to move 31.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #73 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:54 am 
Judan
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Secondary triggers - if you play up to move 36, I'll play 37 as shown, then there are two triggers for the only two reasonable plays at move 38:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Move 38 at B14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 X X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 4 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Move 38 at C12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 2 O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 6 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@observers:
My goal here is to maintain the outside wall. He can have a big corner, but I'm going to have lots of influence and lots of sente plays.

As an example, if he chooses the first trigger - which I think is best for him - I'll finish the sequence with the circled stone. Then I'm all connected, and I'm looking at 'a', 'b', 'c', and 'd'.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Move 38 at B14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . b . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . 0 O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 4 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 3 . B . . . d . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . a X . . . . . . X . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #74 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:33 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 152
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Liked others: 1
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Move 38 at B14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . 0 O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 4 2 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now the corner is safe. Also Black can't perfectly defend all of his cutting points so you can't say that the corner doesn't participate in the game anymore. Of course Black got his own pluses. White center stones became weaker. The left side is divided in two separate groups. Something like E9 surrounds the lower left group though not perfectly either.

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Post #75 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:14 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #76 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black plays J11 it will be too good for him.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . 2 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Added two prisoners from move 40.

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Post #77 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:44 am 
Judan
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This may take another day or two. The position is complex. ( And also, I'm a political junkie )

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Post #78 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:55 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Deciding on this move took a lot of work. The position is complex, and many moves are not what they appear to be at first glance.

I'm still not at all sure that I chose the best move, but I think that I at least avoided the worst of the self-sabotaging moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . ? ? . X . ? b . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . ? a . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . ? f . . |
$$ | . d . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . ? ? . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O ? c ? . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , ? ? ? g . O . . . |
$$ | . e X . . . . . . X ? ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There are a handful of hot spots on the board.

A) A black move at 'a' is a strong attack on white's central group. It is also a good defensive move for white. However, it is oddly ineffective for either of us to play there.

If I play it, he replies with :w2: and then he is threatening :w4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . 1 . . . , X W . |
$$ | . . O O X X . 4 X 2 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And :b1: is too far away from the corner to quash the aji of S16.

If he does it first, it doesn't improve his chances in the corner. Indeed, it might provoke something like P15 from me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . 1 . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . 2 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...which IS enough to settle the corner in my favor:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X 5 3 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . W . . 8 7 X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . B . X 1 . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . 2 9 . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . 0 . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



B) By my count, the first move in the upper right corner is worth about 20 points. But despite the superficial apppeal of a move of that size, neither of us is going to play it soon.

If he tries it right now, I probably have to concede the corner. But it is gote for him, and the consequent outside strength that I get deducts a lot from his profits. I come away with sente and proceed to take a good chunk on the upper side. His net profit is nowhere near 20 points, and may even be negative.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . 8 . X 3 1 9 . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . 4 , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X 0 . . . . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


From my point of view, if he can't play it now, then I don't have to either. So it too is oddly low priority.


C,D&E) These moves are all related, and in some instances they are miai

I'd like to cap with :b1: below, but :w2: is sente to connect. Then he finishes a comfortable life with the big play at B3. It may even be sente for him because of the possibility of a white invasion at H3 or thereabouts.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 X . . . . C . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I could play B3 myself, but it is not a threat to kill because he always has the option to slide underneath at B11:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



F) There is no way for me to make much profit here with one move, because my stone is high:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It really isn't useful for him right now because he just triggers a corner-enclosing reply:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And my stone at Q9 is high enough so that it can run easily, and I can treat it lightly. He doesn't profit much.

G) This is the only area that seems to be truly double sente. Each of us can strengthen our position here without the adverse effects that many other moves have.

If he plays a shoulder hit, I have to respond, and suddenly a play on the right side looks big for him, in addition to the obvious corner profits.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X 6 . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . 7 . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . 2 1 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I play there first, it is not only obvious territory for me, but it is sente to reduce his corner to just a few points. Now my stone at P9 starts to look well positioned.

If he defends with a kick, I get even more lower side territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he defends with the dull play at :w2: then the invasion at H3 is much harder for him, so I may start playing against the left side and the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 X . . . . C . X . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #79 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:59 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 152
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 17
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't want to tenuki because the corner can easily become weak here. I also don't want to play Q2 because it exchanges the second line move for the third line move ( :b43: ) when the main events are in the center. Tsuke-nobi doesn't look good with black stones already at K3 and Q9. And I think Q6 works better than Q5 if Black invades the san-san.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . Q . 0 O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X 6 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #80 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:12 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

An interesting move. He allows me to take the corner if I want it.
He is concentrating on influence. That changes the character of the lower and right sides.

On the upper and left side, all of the previous cautions and complications still apply.

On the right, my stone is still light, so I'm not too concerned. But it wouldn't hurt to have more friends in the center if it has to run westward.

On the lower side, this would be a problem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It squashes my emerging moyo, and even threatens to invade whatever territory I have left. It makes running very difficult for my Q9 stone.

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